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	<title>Comments on: Finkelstein to Shin Bet: Osama Sent Me</title>
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	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100618</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 01:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100618</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@danni:&lt;/p&gt;
I strongly objected to Finkelstein&#039;s historical analogy claiming Hezbollah was Hitler &amp; Israel the Nazis.  THat was odious.  However, his actual pt. that Hezbollah was defending Lebanon fr. Israel attack is valid &amp; legitimate.  I did not however support or justify the original Hezbollah attack &amp; neither did Finkelstein as far as I know.  That being said, until Lebanese territorial claims are resolved w. Israel there will be conflict w. Lebanese forces &amp; for Israel to act as if the Hezbollah attack sprang fr. nowhere is not legitimate.

Also, Finkelstein&#039;s critique of the Holocaust industry is entirely legitimate.  There are American Jewish groups &amp; leaders who shamefully exploit the Holocaust &amp; claims of anti-Semitism for their own political &amp; financial aggrandizement.  And I say this as someone who has written extensively &amp; sympathetically about the Holocaust &amp; published a survivor&#039;s oral history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@danni:</p>
<p>I strongly objected to Finkelstein&#8217;s historical analogy claiming Hezbollah was Hitler &#038; Israel the Nazis.  THat was odious.  However, his actual pt. that Hezbollah was defending Lebanon fr. Israel attack is valid &#038; legitimate.  I did not however support or justify the original Hezbollah attack &#038; neither did Finkelstein as far as I know.  That being said, until Lebanese territorial claims are resolved w. Israel there will be conflict w. Lebanese forces &#038; for Israel to act as if the Hezbollah attack sprang fr. nowhere is not legitimate.</p>
<p>Also, Finkelstein&#8217;s critique of the Holocaust industry is entirely legitimate.  There are American Jewish groups &#038; leaders who shamefully exploit the Holocaust &#038; claims of anti-Semitism for their own political &#038; financial aggrandizement.  And I say this as someone who has written extensively &#038; sympathetically about the Holocaust &#038; published a survivor&#8217;s oral history.</p>
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		<title>By: danni</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100608</link>
		<dc:creator>danni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100608</guid>
		<description>The large number of Jews who were involved with the Spanish war were on the Republican side. The Arab Muslims, in great majority,  were on the side of Franco. You got a point there. Some Zionists people on the right did support Franco at the begining. Later with the intervention of Germany the number declined. But as Jews are Jews, free and independant, see Finkel for example, some Jews participated as killers for the Communists in Spain and few others supported, for a while any how, Franco. But as I have said and I have been dran into a spin on that, Finkel was insidiously and cleverly trying to connent Arabs and Palstinians with the Republicans and generally the Arab national movement was with Franco, Moso., and Adolf. This is also the spin that Finkel does in the holocast history. He converted the story of the Genocide of the Jews to a discussion about the Jews as crooks who steal from their own brothers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The large number of Jews who were involved with the Spanish war were on the Republican side. The Arab Muslims, in great majority,  were on the side of Franco. You got a point there. Some Zionists people on the right did support Franco at the begining. Later with the intervention of Germany the number declined. But as Jews are Jews, free and independant, see Finkel for example, some Jews participated as killers for the Communists in Spain and few others supported, for a while any how, Franco. But as I have said and I have been dran into a spin on that, Finkel was insidiously and cleverly trying to connent Arabs and Palstinians with the Republicans and generally the Arab national movement was with Franco, Moso., and Adolf. This is also the spin that Finkel does in the holocast history. He converted the story of the Genocide of the Jews to a discussion about the Jews as crooks who steal from their own brothers.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100594</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100594</guid>
		<description>@danni: Thanks for that info.  It&#039;s not that surprising that left-wing Zionists would fight in the Brigades.

I&#039;m not sure you are right in saying &quot;all Zionists were against Franco.&quot;  Jabotinsky, if I recall, spoke admiringly about Mussolini.  I can&#039;t imagine the Zionist right supporting the Spanish royalists.

As far as the Lebanon war, which is what NF was talking about, I think Israel does deserve to be tarred morally, spiritually &amp; legally (&amp; militarily).  If he supports Israel&#039;s right to exist (as he does) then you make a mistake if you claim that he doesn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@danni: Thanks for that info.  It&#8217;s not that surprising that left-wing Zionists would fight in the Brigades.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure you are right in saying &#8220;all Zionists were against Franco.&#8221;  Jabotinsky, if I recall, spoke admiringly about Mussolini.  I can&#8217;t imagine the Zionist right supporting the Spanish royalists.</p>
<p>As far as the Lebanon war, which is what NF was talking about, I think Israel does deserve to be tarred morally, spiritually &#038; legally (&#038; militarily).  If he supports Israel&#8217;s right to exist (as he does) then you make a mistake if you claim that he doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100593</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100593</guid>
		<description>@amir: It&#039;s completely immaterial whether they asked him whether he&#039;d met with Al Qaeda or had been sent by Al Qaeda.  The purpose would be the same in either case.  To set up a scenario in which they could smear, imprison &amp; deport him.

He had NOT JUST come from visiting Lebanon.  He had just come from Amsterdam.  Nor was he visiting a Palestinian enemy, unless of course you consider a Palestinian researcher working for B&#039;Tselem an enemy of Israel.  He was not coming for the purposes of activism against Israel so yr claim above is yet another spurious lie about NF.

Since you have in effect conceded that Israel is not a homeland for [all] the Jewish people, in future I will never refer to that way.  I will say it is the homeland for some Jewish people; or the right Jewish people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@amir: It&#8217;s completely immaterial whether they asked him whether he&#8217;d met with Al Qaeda or had been sent by Al Qaeda.  The purpose would be the same in either case.  To set up a scenario in which they could smear, imprison &#038; deport him.</p>
<p>He had NOT JUST come from visiting Lebanon.  He had just come from Amsterdam.  Nor was he visiting a Palestinian enemy, unless of course you consider a Palestinian researcher working for B&#8217;Tselem an enemy of Israel.  He was not coming for the purposes of activism against Israel so yr claim above is yet another spurious lie about NF.</p>
<p>Since you have in effect conceded that Israel is not a homeland for [all] the Jewish people, in future I will never refer to that way.  I will say it is the homeland for some Jewish people; or the right Jewish people.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100592</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 00:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100592</guid>
		<description>@Rabbi Michael Lerner: 

It&#039;s instructive that Finkelstein declined yr offer to discuss his tenure battle.  I wonder why.  Did he say?

I never meant to claim that ALL Jewish progressives had abandoned him.  I was referrign to three particular people who made disparaging comments about his deportation in e mails to me.  I used them as examples because I&#039;m certain that if they were willing to turn their backs on Finkelstein, there are many other Jewish liberals who would be happy to do so as well.  On the other hand, many other Jewish progressives I included in my e mail were supportive of NF in this situation.

You should know that I have linked a number of times in my blog to Tikkun articles.  I remember in particular writing an entire post about yr interview w. Tariq Ramadan.  Nor do I have any problem w. Tikkun&#039;s interest in Jewish spirituality.  In fact, I embrace this view myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rabbi Michael Lerner: </p>
<p>It&#8217;s instructive that Finkelstein declined yr offer to discuss his tenure battle.  I wonder why.  Did he say?</p>
<p>I never meant to claim that ALL Jewish progressives had abandoned him.  I was referrign to three particular people who made disparaging comments about his deportation in e mails to me.  I used them as examples because I&#8217;m certain that if they were willing to turn their backs on Finkelstein, there are many other Jewish liberals who would be happy to do so as well.  On the other hand, many other Jewish progressives I included in my e mail were supportive of NF in this situation.</p>
<p>You should know that I have linked a number of times in my blog to Tikkun articles.  I remember in particular writing an entire post about yr interview w. Tariq Ramadan.  Nor do I have any problem w. Tikkun&#8217;s interest in Jewish spirituality.  In fact, I embrace this view myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100588</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A new and very good documentary (&quot;American Radical&quot;) about Finkelstein is coming out that will likely upset &quot;jewish progressives&quot; as much as Dershowitz and his ziocon billionaire vuntz friends. It&#039;ll likely be nominated for an Academy Award. Why are they secretly pleased that Finkelstein was interogated by Shin Bet and banned from Israel? Two reasons:

1. Bilious jealousy. Who&#039;s the scholar who demolished the fraudulent works of Peters and Goldhagen?, the one largely responsible for shifting the debate in the U.S. from &quot;Cycle of Violence&quot; to &quot;The Israeli Occupation&quot;? Who&#039;s the hot speaker on the college lecture tour here and abroad? Not any of those schlubs.

2. Most of the so-called &quot;anti-zionist jews&quot; are crypto-zionists. They don&#039;t give a damn about the Palestinians but just figured they could get more kudos and attention posing as &quot;harsh jewish critics of Israel&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A new and very good documentary (&#8220;American Radical&#8221;) about Finkelstein is coming out that will likely upset &#8220;jewish progressives&#8221; as much as Dershowitz and his ziocon billionaire vuntz friends. It&#8217;ll likely be nominated for an Academy Award. Why are they secretly pleased that Finkelstein was interogated by Shin Bet and banned from Israel? Two reasons:</p>
<p>1. Bilious jealousy. Who&#8217;s the scholar who demolished the fraudulent works of Peters and Goldhagen?, the one largely responsible for shifting the debate in the U.S. from &#8220;Cycle of Violence&#8221; to &#8220;The Israeli Occupation&#8221;? Who&#8217;s the hot speaker on the college lecture tour here and abroad? Not any of those schlubs.</p>
<p>2. Most of the so-called &#8220;anti-zionist jews&#8221; are crypto-zionists. They don&#8217;t give a damn about the Palestinians but just figured they could get more kudos and attention posing as &#8220;harsh jewish critics of Israel&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: danni</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100587</link>
		<dc:creator>danni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 18:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100587</guid>
		<description>INTERNATIONAL BRIGADE
Thank for the interest:
There is a blog in the net: Jews who served in the Spanish Civil War by Martin Sugarman

I counted there about 8 Isralies who served with the Hagana or later Zahal. However at least 2 that I knew personally are not in the list. One Dsvid Karon? or Caron was later a high up in the Shin-bet. 

Also please check in Wikki in Hebrew !!! The International Brigade and see refferences there

This is just for a start.  

By the way Finkel. on the Leb. TV did not talk about the IDF or the Isr. Gov. He made it a point to tar Israel as whole ,concept and reality: morally, spiritualy and legaly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>INTERNATIONAL BRIGADE<br />
Thank for the interest:<br />
There is a blog in the net: Jews who served in the Spanish Civil War by Martin Sugarman</p>
<p>I counted there about 8 Isralies who served with the Hagana or later Zahal. However at least 2 that I knew personally are not in the list. One Dsvid Karon? or Caron was later a high up in the Shin-bet. </p>
<p>Also please check in Wikki in Hebrew !!! The International Brigade and see refferences there</p>
<p>This is just for a start.  </p>
<p>By the way Finkel. on the Leb. TV did not talk about the IDF or the Isr. Gov. He made it a point to tar Israel as whole ,concept and reality: morally, spiritualy and legaly.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/25/finkelstein-to-shin-bet-osama-sent-me/comment-page-1/#comment-100583</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 17:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3133#comment-100583</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Do you think I need to read blogs to know that Norman Finkelstein was not sent to Israel by Al Qaeda???  &lt;/blockquote&gt; According to the quote that you presented, NF was asked if he had MET with al qaeda or whether he was sent by Hizzballah. Not sent by al qaeda. 
And frankly, stranger things have happened. Lets be honest, when NF arrived at BG airport he did not say he has come as a Jew to his homeland for a visit. He said I have just come from visiting your Lebanese enemy and I now which to visit your Palestinian enemy (I&#039;m not refering specifically to the individual he planned on visiting, but that the Palestinians are still an enemy of the Jewish state). I&#039;m pretty sure he didn&#039;t kiss the ground when he came off the airplane.
If NF wants to exercise his right as a Jew to make Aliyah then that&#039;s fine. To deny him that right the burden of proof is on the state of Israel to prove that he is not eligible. But the Israeli law does not guarantee visitation rights to all Jews under all circumstances. Non-Israeli Jews are not allowed to vote for the knesset, nor are they obligated to pay taxes or serve in the army. Certain rights only come with citizenship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Do you think I need to read blogs to know that Norman Finkelstein was not sent to Israel by Al Qaeda???  </p></blockquote>
<p> According to the quote that you presented, NF was asked if he had MET with al qaeda or whether he was sent by Hizzballah. Not sent by al qaeda.<br />
And frankly, stranger things have happened. Lets be honest, when NF arrived at BG airport he did not say he has come as a Jew to his homeland for a visit. He said I have just come from visiting your Lebanese enemy and I now which to visit your Palestinian enemy (I&#8217;m not refering specifically to the individual he planned on visiting, but that the Palestinians are still an enemy of the Jewish state). I&#8217;m pretty sure he didn&#8217;t kiss the ground when he came off the airplane.<br />
If NF wants to exercise his right as a Jew to make Aliyah then that&#8217;s fine. To deny him that right the burden of proof is on the state of Israel to prove that he is not eligible. But the Israeli law does not guarantee visitation rights to all Jews under all circumstances. Non-Israeli Jews are not allowed to vote for the knesset, nor are they obligated to pay taxes or serve in the army. Certain rights only come with citizenship.</p>
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