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	<title>Comments on: Finkelstein Arrested and Deported by Israel</title>
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	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: B.BarNavi</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100636</link>
		<dc:creator>B.BarNavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100636</guid>
		<description>Okay, whoever compared Richard to the &quot;wicked son&quot; has absolutely no idea what the point of the wicked son in the story is! The Wicked Son in the Hagada was one who distanced himself from the G-d of his parents, saying &quot;what has YOUR G-d done for me?&quot; A comparable case is the attitude that (l&#039;havdil) Israel is &quot;over there&quot; and does not affect any Jews here - something held by most diaspora Jews by and large, but certainly not Richard, who has spoken from a perspective of Israel affecting his life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, whoever compared Richard to the &#8220;wicked son&#8221; has absolutely no idea what the point of the wicked son in the story is! The Wicked Son in the Hagada was one who distanced himself from the G-d of his parents, saying &#8220;what has YOUR G-d done for me?&#8221; A comparable case is the attitude that (l&#8217;havdil) Israel is &#8220;over there&#8221; and does not affect any Jews here &#8211; something held by most diaspora Jews by and large, but certainly not Richard, who has spoken from a perspective of Israel affecting his life.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100572</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 10:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100572</guid>
		<description>@Steve Ornstein: It has nothing to do with censorship, Steve.  It has to do with following the rules.  If you want to lie about my views and beliefs I&#039;m not going to give you a platform to do so.  If you call me anti-Israel and say I&#039;m a liar, which you&#039;ve done, you&#039;ll have to do that elsewhere.

There are thousands of comments here disagreeing with my views.  I&#039;m willing to debate the issues till the cows come home.  But I&#039;m not willing to have people lie &amp; mischaracterize my views.  Your problem is you&#039;re just too lazy to actually read &amp; confront my real views.  You&#039;d rather create a a fictional version because then you don&#039;t have to do any work to actually follow what I say &amp; believe.

I love when the pro-Israel crowd throws around epithets like &quot;fascist.&quot;  They howl when anti-Zionists use the same term to describe Israel (I&#039;ve actually just deep-sixed two such comments published by another commenter).  But they&#039;re only too willing to use it in just as fraudulent circumstances against people they don&#039;t like.

I&#039;ll repeat something I&#039;ve written here often before.  A blog is not the town square.  It&#039;s not a venue for absolute free speech.  There are things you cannot do or say in this blog.  You can argue, but you can&#039;t deliberately lie.  You can&#039;t threaten me or anyone else.  A blog is the property &amp; vision of the owner.  If you don&#039;t like the rules, go elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve Ornstein: It has nothing to do with censorship, Steve.  It has to do with following the rules.  If you want to lie about my views and beliefs I&#8217;m not going to give you a platform to do so.  If you call me anti-Israel and say I&#8217;m a liar, which you&#8217;ve done, you&#8217;ll have to do that elsewhere.</p>
<p>There are thousands of comments here disagreeing with my views.  I&#8217;m willing to debate the issues till the cows come home.  But I&#8217;m not willing to have people lie &#038; mischaracterize my views.  Your problem is you&#8217;re just too lazy to actually read &#038; confront my real views.  You&#8217;d rather create a a fictional version because then you don&#8217;t have to do any work to actually follow what I say &#038; believe.</p>
<p>I love when the pro-Israel crowd throws around epithets like &#8220;fascist.&#8221;  They howl when anti-Zionists use the same term to describe Israel (I&#8217;ve actually just deep-sixed two such comments published by another commenter).  But they&#8217;re only too willing to use it in just as fraudulent circumstances against people they don&#8217;t like.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll repeat something I&#8217;ve written here often before.  A blog is not the town square.  It&#8217;s not a venue for absolute free speech.  There are things you cannot do or say in this blog.  You can argue, but you can&#8217;t deliberately lie.  You can&#8217;t threaten me or anyone else.  A blog is the property &#038; vision of the owner.  If you don&#8217;t like the rules, go elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Ornstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100571</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 09:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100571</guid>
		<description>Censorship is your desire. A fascist at best. I am sorry for you and your foolish one-sided narrow perspective. It is chutzpah to think that because one does not agree with your views we are narrow. Foolish deluded man. I am out of here. It is a waste of time for sure. Blinded my stupidity and arrogance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Censorship is your desire. A fascist at best. I am sorry for you and your foolish one-sided narrow perspective. It is chutzpah to think that because one does not agree with your views we are narrow. Foolish deluded man. I am out of here. It is a waste of time for sure. Blinded my stupidity and arrogance.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100570</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 08:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100570</guid>
		<description>@Steve Ornstein:
No, Steve, we&#039;re not having a dialogue.  You don&#039;t bother to read or understand my real pt of view.  Instead you refract &amp; distort it through yr own narrow prism of Israeli or Jewish experience.  I neither &quot;have an intense desire&quot; not any desire to &quot;support the most extreme positions on Israel.&quot;  This is yr problem, Steve.  Not mine.  My views are entirely within the American Jewish &amp; Israeli political consensus.  It is YOUR views which don&#039;t reflect that consensus.

May I suggest that the so-called &quot;spokespeople&quot; for the Israeli government fall into that &quot;self-promoting&quot; category you describe.  Why confine yrself to denouncing Palestinians?

If you believe that Israel is NOT a homeland for all Jews then you are not a Zionist.  I don&#039;t know what you are, but you&#039;re certainly not a follower of Herzl, Chaim Weizman, etc.  They saw Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.  Not some of the Jewish people.  Not just the ones who chose to make aliyah.  But all of them.  Sorry to disappoint you Steve, but you&#039;re a fake Zionist.  A charlatan.

You have just accused me of &quot;de-legitimizing&quot; Israel and lying.  Your &quot;time&quot; here is now officially over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve Ornstein:<br />
No, Steve, we&#8217;re not having a dialogue.  You don&#8217;t bother to read or understand my real pt of view.  Instead you refract &#038; distort it through yr own narrow prism of Israeli or Jewish experience.  I neither &#8220;have an intense desire&#8221; not any desire to &#8220;support the most extreme positions on Israel.&#8221;  This is yr problem, Steve.  Not mine.  My views are entirely within the American Jewish &#038; Israeli political consensus.  It is YOUR views which don&#8217;t reflect that consensus.</p>
<p>May I suggest that the so-called &#8220;spokespeople&#8221; for the Israeli government fall into that &#8220;self-promoting&#8221; category you describe.  Why confine yrself to denouncing Palestinians?</p>
<p>If you believe that Israel is NOT a homeland for all Jews then you are not a Zionist.  I don&#8217;t know what you are, but you&#8217;re certainly not a follower of Herzl, Chaim Weizman, etc.  They saw Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.  Not some of the Jewish people.  Not just the ones who chose to make aliyah.  But all of them.  Sorry to disappoint you Steve, but you&#8217;re a fake Zionist.  A charlatan.</p>
<p>You have just accused me of &#8220;de-legitimizing&#8221; Israel and lying.  Your &#8220;time&#8221; here is now officially over.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Ornstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100569</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 08:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100569</guid>
		<description>@ Richard.

Well this is where we agree to disagree. &quot;my time here is very short&quot;? Is this a threat or are we having a dialogue. Richard your intense desire to support the most extreme positions on Israel has more to say about the man rather than the positions you take. I remember when Jerry Rubin,, myself and several others hid in a farm house not far from Fort Dix, New Jersey and planned the first demonstration ever on a military base. It was exciting and we were full of self-righteousness. It succeeded beyond our expectations and resulted in  my arrest by the military police. We did it and it hit the national news protesting the Vietnam war. However, after meeting with the so-called National  leadership in Washington DC it became all too clear that our top leadership was just as crazy and self-promoting as the nut cases in the government. May I suggest that many of the so-called &quot;spokespeople&quot; for the suffering of the oppressed and the Palestinians fall well into the former category. 

Your last point and I quote, &quot;I’m sorry but it is a RIGHT for a Jew to visit Israel, not a privilege. Israel is supposed to be the homeland of the Jewish people. If it is, then it has no right to deny any Jew that right unless he plans direct physical harm to the state or its citizens.&quot;

 I am really sorry to disappoint you but in spite of what you were told, it is not the right of a Jew to visit &#124;Israel it is a privilege .Nor is it the Homeland for all Jews. Just those that are willing to live here and die her,God forbid, to defend our right to be here. This country has every right to say no to any person it deems a threat real or existential under the current circumstance as far as I am concerned. It is the Jews living here that have all rights and  privileges under the protection of our Democracy to say just about anything you may want to say including the stupid outbursts by the far-right and far-left. At least they put there beings where their words are and mean it in their actions. 

I truly believe living in the US or abroad  as Jews warps the reality you see from there both real and/or imagined regarding Israel. So I am not taken by all the  critics and supporters of one position or another on Israel from abroad. 
. 

Just because you are Jewish you do not  have a right or are privilege at the attempt to delegitimize our country,  We have too many other enemies, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran that want Islamic hegemony over our tiny piece of land to worry or concern ourselves with the likes of the ivory-tower types living abroad who have the need to distort, lie and to revise the truth to their liking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard.</p>
<p>Well this is where we agree to disagree. &#8220;my time here is very short&#8221;? Is this a threat or are we having a dialogue. Richard your intense desire to support the most extreme positions on Israel has more to say about the man rather than the positions you take. I remember when Jerry Rubin,, myself and several others hid in a farm house not far from Fort Dix, New Jersey and planned the first demonstration ever on a military base. It was exciting and we were full of self-righteousness. It succeeded beyond our expectations and resulted in  my arrest by the military police. We did it and it hit the national news protesting the Vietnam war. However, after meeting with the so-called National  leadership in Washington DC it became all too clear that our top leadership was just as crazy and self-promoting as the nut cases in the government. May I suggest that many of the so-called &#8220;spokespeople&#8221; for the suffering of the oppressed and the Palestinians fall well into the former category. </p>
<p>Your last point and I quote, &#8220;I’m sorry but it is a RIGHT for a Jew to visit Israel, not a privilege. Israel is supposed to be the homeland of the Jewish people. If it is, then it has no right to deny any Jew that right unless he plans direct physical harm to the state or its citizens.&#8221;</p>
<p> I am really sorry to disappoint you but in spite of what you were told, it is not the right of a Jew to visit |Israel it is a privilege .Nor is it the Homeland for all Jews. Just those that are willing to live here and die her,God forbid, to defend our right to be here. This country has every right to say no to any person it deems a threat real or existential under the current circumstance as far as I am concerned. It is the Jews living here that have all rights and  privileges under the protection of our Democracy to say just about anything you may want to say including the stupid outbursts by the far-right and far-left. At least they put there beings where their words are and mean it in their actions. </p>
<p>I truly believe living in the US or abroad  as Jews warps the reality you see from there both real and/or imagined regarding Israel. So I am not taken by all the  critics and supporters of one position or another on Israel from abroad.<br />
. </p>
<p>Just because you are Jewish you do not  have a right or are privilege at the attempt to delegitimize our country,  We have too many other enemies, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran that want Islamic hegemony over our tiny piece of land to worry or concern ourselves with the likes of the ivory-tower types living abroad who have the need to distort, lie and to revise the truth to their liking.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100562</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 03:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100562</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Steve Ornstein:&lt;/p&gt;I don&#039;t know where to begin.  Finkelstein suppported Hezbollah&#039;s right to defend Lebanese soil against Israeli invasion.  That is an entirely legitimate political position even in an Israeli context.

I&#039;m absolutely uninterested in having a cat fight about Norman Finkelstein&#039;s alleged vices in yr view.  In fact, continuing in that vein will make your time here very short.  I don&#039;t use Ilan Pappe to support anything.  If you want to comment on my views the only source you can use to do so is me and not external ones.

Finkelstein has NOT created a &quot;fictional narrative.&quot;  Those are yr terms aided &amp; abetted by groups like CAMERA, Campus Watch, Frontpagemagazine, etc.  Once again, Finkelstein supports Israel&#039;s right to exist &amp; yr claims are the ones that are fictitious, even fraudulent.

I&#039;m sorry but it is a RIGHT for a Jew to visit Israel, not a privilege.  Israel is supposed to be the homeland of the Jewish people.  If it is, then it has no right to deny any Jew that right unless he plans direct physical harm to the state or its citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve Ornstein:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know where to begin.  Finkelstein suppported Hezbollah&#8217;s right to defend Lebanese soil against Israeli invasion.  That is an entirely legitimate political position even in an Israeli context.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m absolutely uninterested in having a cat fight about Norman Finkelstein&#8217;s alleged vices in yr view.  In fact, continuing in that vein will make your time here very short.  I don&#8217;t use Ilan Pappe to support anything.  If you want to comment on my views the only source you can use to do so is me and not external ones.</p>
<p>Finkelstein has NOT created a &#8220;fictional narrative.&#8221;  Those are yr terms aided &#038; abetted by groups like CAMERA, Campus Watch, Frontpagemagazine, etc.  Once again, Finkelstein supports Israel&#8217;s right to exist &#038; yr claims are the ones that are fictitious, even fraudulent.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but it is a RIGHT for a Jew to visit Israel, not a privilege.  Israel is supposed to be the homeland of the Jewish people.  If it is, then it has no right to deny any Jew that right unless he plans direct physical harm to the state or its citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Ornstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100545</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Ornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 14:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100545</guid>
		<description>@ Richard
If in fact Finkelstein did meet in Lebanon with Hezbollah and made  statements attributed to him that supported Israel&#039;s defeat, then he becomes a foreign  agitator creating a  liability and a danger to the State. Besides, If you would like I can share many statements made by him that is at best revisionist and historically inaccurate. If you need to use statements made by Pappe to prop up the truth about Israel then there is nothing to discuss. He has stated clearly that his personal need to support the Palestinians by creating a fictitious narrative to make his point  is perfectly fine. So it appears that his need to provide a narrative that denies Israel&#039;s right to exist and share as the truth is academia run amok.  I am all for difference of opinions including Jews supporting the elimination of Israel but there is no reason in heaven to allow them to enter Israel. It is a priviledge not a right to be allowed to come and visit our country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard<br />
If in fact Finkelstein did meet in Lebanon with Hezbollah and made  statements attributed to him that supported Israel&#8217;s defeat, then he becomes a foreign  agitator creating a  liability and a danger to the State. Besides, If you would like I can share many statements made by him that is at best revisionist and historically inaccurate. If you need to use statements made by Pappe to prop up the truth about Israel then there is nothing to discuss. He has stated clearly that his personal need to support the Palestinians by creating a fictitious narrative to make his point  is perfectly fine. So it appears that his need to provide a narrative that denies Israel&#8217;s right to exist and share as the truth is academia run amok.  I am all for difference of opinions including Jews supporting the elimination of Israel but there is no reason in heaven to allow them to enter Israel. It is a priviledge not a right to be allowed to come and visit our country.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/23/finkelstein-arrested-and-deported-by-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-100538</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 08:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3132#comment-100538</guid>
		<description>@danni: Give me a break.  &quot;Imperialistic?&quot;  What are you on about?

I don&#039;t accept the U.S. denying Tariq Ramadan entry &amp; I don&#039;t accept Israel denying Norman Finkelstein entry.  I don&#039;t accept any country denying entry to someone because of their political beliefs.  If someone is an actual danger to the country--sure ban him or her.  Otherwise, what are Israel and the U.S. afraid of in banning these people??

The analogy bet. Hezbollah &amp; Al Qaeda is preposterous.  They are entirely different with diff. agendas, different strategies, diff. ideologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@danni: Give me a break.  &#8220;Imperialistic?&#8221;  What are you on about?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t accept the U.S. denying Tariq Ramadan entry &#038; I don&#8217;t accept Israel denying Norman Finkelstein entry.  I don&#8217;t accept any country denying entry to someone because of their political beliefs.  If someone is an actual danger to the country&#8211;sure ban him or her.  Otherwise, what are Israel and the U.S. afraid of in banning these people??</p>
<p>The analogy bet. Hezbollah &#038; Al Qaeda is preposterous.  They are entirely different with diff. agendas, different strategies, diff. ideologies.</p>
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