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	<title>Comments on: Bush in Knesset Speech Calls Obama Foreign Policy &#8216;Delusion&#8217; and &#8216;Appeasement&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Daga</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100334</link>
		<dc:creator>Daga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 11:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100334</guid>
		<description>@Mark
Quote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;It’s embarrassing how little you all know about the depth of Arab and Moslem cooperationwith the Germans.And for intelligent people to use wikipedia as a source
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You should always exercise criticism of your sources. Avoid media or writers you know or suspect of having a bias. I prefer to use regimes opposition or critics. Like Richard here. On Iran I prefer to read arab newspapers, and vice versa.
   In Uncharted Waters Wikipedia is an excellent starting point, use the footnotes for a  check, and if you are the least uncertain, spend 5 minutes "googling" on important issues.
  
 Back to you Mark. Your link to  "New York Jewish Times" as a proof of arab   cooperation with the nazi regime fails the most benign litmus test as a reliable source. You will always find people cooperating with the enemy. Hitler had Quisling and jewish  "kapos", US have Maliki and Kharzai, Israel have Abbas. Why some people chose to side with the enemy is hard to tell. Sometimes  greed, ideology, pressure or just  stupidity.

  Your embarrassment should not be our ignorance of &lt;b&gt;" Arab and Moslem cooperation with the Germans"&lt;/b&gt; but of your own opinionated assertion that we lack the very quality your comment is a valid proof of short supply.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark<br />
Quote:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>It’s embarrassing how little you all know about the depth of Arab and Moslem cooperationwith the Germans.And for intelligent people to use wikipedia as a source<br />
</i></p></blockquote>
<p>You should always exercise criticism of your sources. Avoid media or writers you know or suspect of having a bias. I prefer to use regimes opposition or critics. Like Richard here. On Iran I prefer to read arab newspapers, and vice versa.<br />
   In Uncharted Waters Wikipedia is an excellent starting point, use the footnotes for a  check, and if you are the least uncertain, spend 5 minutes &#8220;googling&#8221; on important issues.</p>
<p> Back to you Mark. Your link to  &#8220;New York Jewish Times&#8221; as a proof of arab   cooperation with the nazi regime fails the most benign litmus test as a reliable source. You will always find people cooperating with the enemy. Hitler had Quisling and jewish  &#8220;kapos&#8221;, US have Maliki and Kharzai, Israel have Abbas. Why some people chose to side with the enemy is hard to tell. Sometimes  greed, ideology, pressure or just  stupidity.</p>
<p>  Your embarrassment should not be our ignorance of <b>&#8221; Arab and Moslem cooperation with the Germans&#8221;</b> but of your own opinionated assertion that we lack the very quality your comment is a valid proof of short supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100255</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100255</guid>
		<description>@Mark: It is ironic beyond measure that someone relying on a "source" called the "New York Jewish Times" would impugn the reliability of Wikipedia as a source; especially w/o providing a shred of evidence ("evidence," what's evidence?) to question it.  I carefully vet Wikipedia articles before I link to them.  Yr standards apparently aren't as high.

I didn't say Arabs didn't collaborate.  I said that Jews sought to as well which, once again is a claim that none of you apologists are willing to touch w. a 10 foot pole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark: It is ironic beyond measure that someone relying on a &#8220;source&#8221; called the &#8220;New York Jewish Times&#8221; would impugn the reliability of Wikipedia as a source; especially w/o providing a shred of evidence (&#8221;evidence,&#8221; what&#8217;s evidence?) to question it.  I carefully vet Wikipedia articles before I link to them.  Yr standards apparently aren&#8217;t as high.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say Arabs didn&#8217;t collaborate.  I said that Jews sought to as well which, once again is a claim that none of you apologists are willing to touch w. a 10 foot pole.</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100249</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100249</guid>
		<description>Richard, I have decided to consider Pearlman as a counterpoint. Maybe in the state of "countercheck quarrelsome". (...) Besides, I am leaning towards his position on this issue. We can't read the thirties from our contemporary perspectives,. And yes, I have absolutely no doubt the Zionists were children of their times, how could they have been anything but?  It's an absolutely interesting topic no doubt. One of these day I'll dive into these times, with a little help from Francis R. Nicosia. At the moment he has lost the fight against a whole pile of other authors. But I will read him in the near future: http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd.

There definitively is a close connection between the Husseini clan and the Nazis; even if the Wiki's cry bias at the moment.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni. ... I still doubt the Zionist were that close.

Suzanne, Obama will win!  Especially since Richard told us, it never happened before that someone he supported became president. And yes, I trust in the risk assessment of the Obamaites. And I will be really offended, if some"kind of  swiftboaters" will again fish for bias.  What is Rove doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, I have decided to consider Pearlman as a counterpoint. Maybe in the state of &#8220;countercheck quarrelsome&#8221;. (&#8230;) Besides, I am leaning towards his position on this issue. We can&#8217;t read the thirties from our contemporary perspectives,. And yes, I have absolutely no doubt the Zionists were children of their times, how could they have been anything but?  It&#8217;s an absolutely interesting topic no doubt. One of these day I&#8217;ll dive into these times, with a little help from Francis R. Nicosia. At the moment he has lost the fight against a whole pile of other authors. But I will read him in the near future: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd');">http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd</a>.</p>
<p>There definitively is a close connection between the Husseini clan and the Nazis; even if the Wiki&#8217;s cry bias at the moment.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni');">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni</a>. &#8230; I still doubt the Zionist were that close.</p>
<p>Suzanne, Obama will win!  Especially since Richard told us, it never happened before that someone he supported became president. And yes, I trust in the risk assessment of the Obamaites. And I will be really offended, if some&#8221;kind of  swiftboaters&#8221; will again fish for bias.  What is Rove doing?</p>
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		<title>By: Kraut</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100247</link>
		<dc:creator>Kraut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 15:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100247</guid>
		<description>Richard, I have decided to consider Pearlman as a counterpoint. Maybe in the state of "countercheck quarrelsome". (search Romeo and Juliet) Besides, I am leaning towards his position on this.If I were a friend of reading history backwards or confusing it with fiction, I might find the Zionist - Nazi connection more interesting too. But while lately Francis R. NIcosia has lost the fight against a whole pile of other authors, I will read him in the near future: http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd

There definitively is a connection between the Husseini clan and the Nazis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni. ... I doubt the Zionist were that close.

Suzanne, Obama will win!  Especially since Richard told us, it never happened before that someone he supported became president. And yes, I trust in the risk assessment of the Obamaites. And I will be really offended, if some"kind of  swiftboaters" will again fish for bias.  What is Rove doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, I have decided to consider Pearlman as a counterpoint. Maybe in the state of &#8220;countercheck quarrelsome&#8221;. (search Romeo and Juliet) Besides, I am leaning towards his position on this.If I were a friend of reading history backwards or confusing it with fiction, I might find the Zionist - Nazi connection more interesting too. But while lately Francis R. NIcosia has lost the fight against a whole pile of other authors, I will read him in the near future: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd');">http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd</a></p>
<p>There definitively is a connection between the Husseini clan and the Nazis: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni');">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni</a>. &#8230; I doubt the Zionist were that close.</p>
<p>Suzanne, Obama will win!  Especially since Richard told us, it never happened before that someone he supported became president. And yes, I trust in the risk assessment of the Obamaites. And I will be really offended, if some&#8221;kind of  swiftboaters&#8221; will again fish for bias.  What is Rove doing?</p>
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		<title>By: LeaNder</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100246</link>
		<dc:creator>LeaNder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100246</guid>
		<description>"But it’s a good question how much of the general public will fall again for unsubstantiated rumors with unexamined origins."

Suzanne, I sure hope the Obama camp has a brilliant risk assessment. So far they did a good job.

Richard, Billy Boy is pretty predictable. Obviously for you, that must feel quite a bit  different. For me he is some kind of counterpoint. He doesn't hit really deeply. Mostly it feels like a rather light-hearted insult and fast insult, andyou won't believe  occasionally he even dives beyond these surfaces. Rarely only, but nevertheless.

I am not really deeply  familiar with the Zionist or Palestinian/Arab/Muslim Nazi connections. The Husseini (however you like to spell it)  clan had a man in Berlin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni, and I am sure he had his fingers in Muslim recruitment. I doubt if the Zionist were that close ..... So on this issue I still lean slightly towards Pearlman.

At the moment Francis R Nicosia seems to be losing the fight against many other author's books. But he sure is still on my reading list. http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd
Too many play to fat with  evidence, for my taste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But it’s a good question how much of the general public will fall again for unsubstantiated rumors with unexamined origins.&#8221;</p>
<p>Suzanne, I sure hope the Obama camp has a brilliant risk assessment. So far they did a good job.</p>
<p>Richard, Billy Boy is pretty predictable. Obviously for you, that must feel quite a bit  different. For me he is some kind of counterpoint. He doesn&#8217;t hit really deeply. Mostly it feels like a rather light-hearted insult and fast insult, andyou won&#8217;t believe  occasionally he even dives beyond these surfaces. Rarely only, but nevertheless.</p>
<p>I am not really deeply  familiar with the Zionist or Palestinian/Arab/Muslim Nazi connections. The Husseini (however you like to spell it)  clan had a man in Berlin. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni');">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni</a>, and I am sure he had his fingers in Muslim recruitment. I doubt if the Zionist were that close &#8230;.. So on this issue I still lean slightly towards Pearlman.</p>
<p>At the moment Francis R Nicosia seems to be losing the fight against many other author&#8217;s books. But he sure is still on my reading list. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd');">http://tinyurl.com/4aexvd</a><br />
Too many play to fat with  evidence, for my taste.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100242</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 12:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100242</guid>
		<description>It's  embarrassing how little you all know about the depth of Arab and Moslem cooperationwith the Germans.And for intelligent people to use wikipedia as a source.  http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-22-05/Arabs&#38;Nazis-CanItBeTrue.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s  embarrassing how little you all know about the depth of Arab and Moslem cooperationwith the Germans.And for intelligent people to use wikipedia as a source.  <a href="http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-22-05/Arabs&amp;Nazis-CanItBeTrue.htm" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-22-05/Arabs&amp;Nazis-CanItBeTrue.htm');">http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-22-05/Arabs&amp;Nazis-CanItBeTrue.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100235</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 05:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100235</guid>
		<description>@LeaNder: I ban him not just because of the insults directed at you.  Pearlman is just an insult to the human race &#038; damn tiresome.

Don't worry, he seems to have access to unlimited IP addresses &#038; manages to weasel his way back into the threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@LeaNder: I ban him not just because of the insults directed at you.  Pearlman is just an insult to the human race &#038; damn tiresome.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry, he seems to have access to unlimited IP addresses &#038; manages to weasel his way back into the threads.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100234</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100234</guid>
		<description>As usual, you can't trust the truth or accuracy of anything Bill says.  I had to look up &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_%281st_Croatian%29" rel="nofollow"&gt;this stupid issue&lt;/a&gt; in Wikipedia to get to the bottom of it.  Yes, there was an SS division composed of Bosnian Muslims (not Palestinian Muslims) and Catholics.  There were approx. 10,000 Muslims serving.  They fought for the Germans for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do w. Jews or Palestinian Muslims.  They fought because Serbian Chetniks had murdered 100,000 Bosnian Muslims earlier in WWII &#038; there was a desire to fight back.

Meanwhile:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in "evacuating" the Jews of Europe, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik was sent to Beirut where he met the German official Werner Otto von Hentig. Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.

...On January 11, 1941 a letter was sent from Der Marvitz, the German Naval attaché in Ankara, depicting an offer to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich".

--Wikipedia, &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities" rel="nofollow"&gt;Lehi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I still find it unbelievable that any Jew could support the German side no matter how much hatred they might have for the British.  A Jew supporting Germany is FAR MORE TROUBLING than a Bosnian Muslim serving in the German army to fight Serbian fascists.  It musn't bother Bill because we still haven't heard a peep out of him on this.

Not to mention that Ben Gurion made his famous statement that he'd prefer to witness the destruction of all of European Jewry if the alternative was that all escaped to countries other than Israel (then Palestine).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, you can&#8217;t trust the truth or accuracy of anything Bill says.  I had to look up <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_%281st_Croatian%29" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_%281st_Croatian%29');">this stupid issue</a> in Wikipedia to get to the bottom of it.  Yes, there was an SS division composed of Bosnian Muslims (not Palestinian Muslims) and Catholics.  There were approx. 10,000 Muslims serving.  They fought for the Germans for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do w. Jews or Palestinian Muslims.  They fought because Serbian Chetniks had murdered 100,000 Bosnian Muslims earlier in WWII &#038; there was a desire to fight back.</p>
<p>Meanwhile:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in &#8220;evacuating&#8221; the Jews of Europe, in return for Germany&#8217;s help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik was sent to Beirut where he met the German official Werner Otto von Hentig. Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.</p>
<p>&#8230;On January 11, 1941 a letter was sent from Der Marvitz, the German Naval attaché in Ankara, depicting an offer to &#8220;actively take part in the war on Germany&#8217;s side&#8221; in return for German support for &#8220;the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8211;Wikipedia, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities');">Lehi</a></p></blockquote>
<p>I still find it unbelievable that any Jew could support the German side no matter how much hatred they might have for the British.  A Jew supporting Germany is FAR MORE TROUBLING than a Bosnian Muslim serving in the German army to fight Serbian fascists.  It musn&#8217;t bother Bill because we still haven&#8217;t heard a peep out of him on this.</p>
<p>Not to mention that Ben Gurion made his famous statement that he&#8217;d prefer to witness the destruction of all of European Jewry if the alternative was that all escaped to countries other than Israel (then Palestine).</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Pearlman</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100231</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Pearlman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 03:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100231</guid>
		<description>It was the 13th waffen SS division, The Scimitar Division Waffen SS. They had a great time hunting Jews in Yugoslavia. Meanwhile you had the Jewish Brigade, attached to the Briitish army. Among the other 50,000 Palestinian Jews in the British army. Hannah Senesh, SOE, droped into Europe and tortured to death by the same Germans who were entertaining the mufti in Jerusalem. You can bow down to the altar of the nakba all you want but don't try to white wash Moslem backing of the Nazi's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was the 13th waffen SS division, The Scimitar Division Waffen SS. They had a great time hunting Jews in Yugoslavia. Meanwhile you had the Jewish Brigade, attached to the Briitish army. Among the other 50,000 Palestinian Jews in the British army. Hannah Senesh, SOE, droped into Europe and tortured to death by the same Germans who were entertaining the mufti in Jerusalem. You can bow down to the altar of the nakba all you want but don&#8217;t try to white wash Moslem backing of the Nazi&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Leander</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/15/bush-in-knesset-speech-calls-obama-foreign-policy-delusion-and-appeasement/#comment-100230</link>
		<dc:creator>Leander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 01:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3120#comment-100230</guid>
		<description>Jim Lobe, Nazi-Iran Analogy:
http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=140</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Lobe, Nazi-Iran Analogy:<br />
<a href="http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=140" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=140');">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/?p=140</a></p>
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