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	<title>Comments on: New York Times&#8217; Bronner Gets the Israeli Arab Experience Wrong</title>
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	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
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		<title>By: worth noting</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-106723</link>
		<dc:creator>worth noting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 06:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3107#comment-106723</guid>
		<description>More lies from Ethan and the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13israel.html?_r=1

Jan 12, 2009

&quot;To Israel’s critics abroad, the picture could not be clearer: Israel’s war in Gaza is a wildly disproportionate response to the rockets of Hamas, causing untold human suffering and bombing an already isolated and impoverished population into the Stone Age, and it must be stopped
 
Yet here in Israel very few, at least among the Jewish population, see it that way.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More lies from Ethan and the NY Times</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13israel.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/world/middleeast/13israel.html?_r=1</a></p>
<p>Jan 12, 2009</p>
<p>&#8220;To Israel’s critics abroad, the picture could not be clearer: Israel’s war in Gaza is a wildly disproportionate response to the rockets of Hamas, causing untold human suffering and bombing an already isolated and impoverished population into the Stone Age, and it must be stopped</p>
<p>Yet here in Israel very few, at least among the Jewish population, see it that way.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Stein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100028</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 06:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is an excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100025</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 04:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3107#comment-100025</guid>
		<description>Another example of Bronner&#039;s unconscious bias--

&lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E1D7103DF933A15751C0A9629C8B63&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;


Notice how he thinks the massacres (he is careful to call them small in scale, though some involved the deaths of hundreds) and forced expulsions 
are somehow the same as Arab governments offering to accept women and children, and local village leaders telling some people to flee for their own safety.  He actually thinks that the concern for the safety of Arab civilians by other Arabs somehow gives us a more complicated moral picture of the cause of the Palestinian refugee problem--somehow this is supposed to lighten the guilt of the Zionist side.  It&#039;s bizarre.  Nobody would ever say this in any other conflict.  The only reason he thinks this way is because for decades the official story was the the Arabs all fled at the orders of their leaders and none were expelled.  Even this story doesn&#039;t really make any moral sense, because in that case, if the Israelis didn&#039;t want them leaving, they&#039;d have let them return after the fighting stopped.

If he wants to talk sensibly about Arab guilt then he should talk about Arab atrocities, of which there were no shortage, but it&#039;s as though when speaking of Zionist ethnic cleansing he has to somehow dilute the effect by claiming it&#039;s partly the fault of the Arab leaders, because some of them were concerned for the safety of Arab civilians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example of Bronner&#8217;s unconscious bias&#8211;</p>
<p><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E1D7103DF933A15751C0A9629C8B63" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
<p>Notice how he thinks the massacres (he is careful to call them small in scale, though some involved the deaths of hundreds) and forced expulsions<br />
are somehow the same as Arab governments offering to accept women and children, and local village leaders telling some people to flee for their own safety.  He actually thinks that the concern for the safety of Arab civilians by other Arabs somehow gives us a more complicated moral picture of the cause of the Palestinian refugee problem&#8211;somehow this is supposed to lighten the guilt of the Zionist side.  It&#8217;s bizarre.  Nobody would ever say this in any other conflict.  The only reason he thinks this way is because for decades the official story was the the Arabs all fled at the orders of their leaders and none were expelled.  Even this story doesn&#8217;t really make any moral sense, because in that case, if the Israelis didn&#8217;t want them leaving, they&#8217;d have let them return after the fighting stopped.</p>
<p>If he wants to talk sensibly about Arab guilt then he should talk about Arab atrocities, of which there were no shortage, but it&#8217;s as though when speaking of Zionist ethnic cleansing he has to somehow dilute the effect by claiming it&#8217;s partly the fault of the Arab leaders, because some of them were concerned for the safety of Arab civilians.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100011</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 18:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@curious: There&#039;s an interesting underlying assumption in this comment that because I support Israel that I somehow should do the same things that flag-waving pro-Israel supporters do which is either to extol the virtues of Israel on Yom Haatzmaoot or mourn on Yom HaShoah.

You also do something that many do who write comments here criticizing me for something I haven&#039;t written that they think I should have.  That is, you haven&#039;t reviewed my archives by doing a simple site search based on the keywords in your question.  If you search on &#039;Holocaust&#039; you will find numerous posts about the subject.  And I don&#039;t only post about it on Yom Hashoah.  As for Yom Haatzmaut, I don&#039;t recall I&#039;ve ever written something specifically devoted to that day.  But the fact that I haven&#039;t doesn&#039;t mean you can assume I&#039;m not pro-Israel or a progressive Zionist.  I see my role as filling in the empty spaces which others in the media and blog world leave empty regarding Israel &amp; the I-P conflict.

The post you are commenting on is my meditation on the nature of Israeli society &amp; my prescription for curing what ails it.  That&#039;s as close as you&#039;re going to get to a post dedicated to Yom Haatzmaut this yr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@curious: There&#8217;s an interesting underlying assumption in this comment that because I support Israel that I somehow should do the same things that flag-waving pro-Israel supporters do which is either to extol the virtues of Israel on Yom Haatzmaoot or mourn on Yom HaShoah.</p>
<p>You also do something that many do who write comments here criticizing me for something I haven&#8217;t written that they think I should have.  That is, you haven&#8217;t reviewed my archives by doing a simple site search based on the keywords in your question.  If you search on &#8216;Holocaust&#8217; you will find numerous posts about the subject.  And I don&#8217;t only post about it on Yom Hashoah.  As for Yom Haatzmaut, I don&#8217;t recall I&#8217;ve ever written something specifically devoted to that day.  But the fact that I haven&#8217;t doesn&#8217;t mean you can assume I&#8217;m not pro-Israel or a progressive Zionist.  I see my role as filling in the empty spaces which others in the media and blog world leave empty regarding Israel &#038; the I-P conflict.</p>
<p>The post you are commenting on is my meditation on the nature of Israeli society &#038; my prescription for curing what ails it.  That&#8217;s as close as you&#8217;re going to get to a post dedicated to Yom Haatzmaut this yr.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100010</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 18:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Judy:&lt;/p&gt;
I just went back &amp; reviewed that passage &amp; I read it slightly differently than you.  I think he was setting up a juxtaposition bet. the cities &amp; villages into which the Arabs are NOW packed &amp; the abandoned villages which are sitting vacant.  In other words, he&#039;s implying that the Arabs should be allowed to go back &amp; repopulate those villages since they are &quot;unused.&quot;  I don&#039;t think his word choice made that super clear.  But I don&#039;t read it as negatively as you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Judy:</p>
<p>I just went back &#038; reviewed that passage &#038; I read it slightly differently than you.  I think he was setting up a juxtaposition bet. the cities &#038; villages into which the Arabs are NOW packed &#038; the abandoned villages which are sitting vacant.  In other words, he&#8217;s implying that the Arabs should be allowed to go back &#038; repopulate those villages since they are &#8220;unused.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t think his word choice made that super clear.  But I don&#8217;t read it as negatively as you.</p>
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		<title>By: curious</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100007</link>
		<dc:creator>curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 15:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=3107#comment-100007</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious. You consider yourself pro-Israel and yet this is the closest posting I can find that makes any reference to Israel Independence Day. I see no posts about Holocaust Memorial Day and no posts about Israel Memorial Day either. I am certainly not trying to tell you what you ought to write about - you don&#039;t get paid for this, but what with Israelis and Jews the world over commemorating these events, I would have thought that you might join them to one extent or another. Is there a reason for this? Like I said, I am just curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious. You consider yourself pro-Israel and yet this is the closest posting I can find that makes any reference to Israel Independence Day. I see no posts about Holocaust Memorial Day and no posts about Israel Memorial Day either. I am certainly not trying to tell you what you ought to write about &#8211; you don&#8217;t get paid for this, but what with Israelis and Jews the world over commemorating these events, I would have thought that you might join them to one extent or another. Is there a reason for this? Like I said, I am just curious.</p>
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		<title>By: Violet</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100002</link>
		<dc:creator>Violet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 11:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Judy - that reference to &#039;unused&#039; villages jumped out at me too.  Several hundred villages were depopulated and many were destroyed....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judy &#8211; that reference to &#8216;unused&#8217; villages jumped out at me too.  Several hundred villages were depopulated and many were destroyed&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/05/08/new-york-times-bronner-gets-the-israeli-arab-experience-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-100001</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 10:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I loved the reference to &quot;dozens&quot; of &quot;unused&quot; villages...

I wonder who coined that euphemism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the reference to &#8220;dozens&#8221; of &#8220;unused&#8221; villages&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder who coined that euphemism?</p>
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