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What do you expect a tourist board to do? All tourist boards promote the positive things about their country, while steering clear of the politics. Is there anything really remarkable in this? Does the US tourist board promote inner-city murder and degradation?
All I can tell you is what won’t work & this won’t work. Besides, the ultimate tourism promoter will be peace.
Why can’t you answer the question posed? What do you expect a tourist board to do? Of course peace would be fantastic, but do you expect the tourism board to just pack in their work? Besides, tourism in Israel is pretty successful these days – something that will only get stronger in the wake of the cheap flights coming in from Europe.
Israel has already denied direct responsibility for the deaths you manage to relate to an article about tourism. The deaths were caused by secondary explosions (presumably munitions of freedom fighters). Nevertheless, the IDF is continuing its investigations: no doubt because its statements never have the credibility that Arabs do.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208870508832&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Earlier I commented that only weapons – not fuel (or food) – were being smuggled into Gaza through tunnels from Egypt. I WAS WRONG!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352979,00.html
But perhaps this drastic need for fuel was because of the actions of Hamas, who just stole 45,000 liters of fuel at gunpoint from the Palestine Petrol Agency at Nachal Oz.
http://www.palpress.ps/arabic/index.php?maa=ReadStory&ChannelID=32436
(If your Arabic is weak, perhaps you could use Google to translate…)
Oddly enough, Israel mentions a minimum of 60 liters only…. Maybe they’re discussing a different incident.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208870521477&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
I suppose the same energy should be committed to outing all other mid-east countries with more oppressive, backwards regimes than Israel. Why visit Egypt or Jordan when their brutal regimes betray whatever positive looking tourist ads they can mass produce for all the world to see? Egypt and Jordan’s crimes against humanity make Israel’s pale in comparison. Same for the US and Britain, with respect to their brutal occupation of Iraq. Countries currently occupying the Chechnyans, the Tibetans, and the Kurds also need to be outed for real Tikun Olam to take place.
The governments of Egypt and Jordan are not the subjects of endless, nauseating streams of praise in America. I must say that this ceaseless whining of “other countries are worse” from Israel’s defenders is pathetic.
William Burns: “The governments of Egypt and Jordan are not the subjects of endless, nauseating streams of praise in America.”
So your problem is actually with America?
As much as “Einstein’s” problem is with Richard, yes.
The moral bankruptcy of the Israeli apologist position is pathetic. The world is an imperfect place, in fact filled w. evil. Therefore, Israel’s moral failings are entirely acceptable & even justified. So the argument goes–perfect the world & then you can expect perfection of Israel. What ludicrousness.
The point is that if Israel isn’t singled out, we’d have to apply the same standard to all countries that have existing, oppressive policies / occupations. Why pick on Israel only? Why not simply put this in context with every other brutal, oppressive nation looking for tourists?
In fact – let’s go one step further. Palestinians and their economy are suffering. If tourism to the Gaza or the W.Bank could really help their economy, what’s wrong with Hamas or Fatah aggressively campaigning to bring tourists to their territories? Who would object to this on the grounds of humanitarian reasons – namely, being that the OT have atrocious civil rights records and are governed by terrorists?
Let’s be fair.
If tourism was “pretty successful” these days the Israeli tourism board wouldn’t be spending $11 million not just to promote tourism but attempting to counter Israel’s dismal image in the world.
I have seen plenty of advertising of products in which ads acknowledge frailty & imperfection & do so in a humorous way that still manages to promote the product effectively.
If Israel’s position in the world was as honky dory as you make it out to be you wouldn’t give a crap about anything I say.
Since Israel is already singled out as the largest recipient of American foreign aid, I don’t think there’s anything wrong in it being singled out for criticism. In practice, of course, this doesn’t happen. As far as Hamas encouraging tourism to Gaza, it’s not really an option if Israel isn’t letting anyone in.
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out Israel’s problems. And no one here is arguing Israel’s moral failings are acceptable or justified, only that their actions should be understood within the context of the situation (when the moral failings of the other side should also be taken into consideration – but rarely never is).
Singling out Israel, to the point of ignoring similar or worse problems elsewhere, brings this world no closer to Tikun Olam – and everyone knows this. It’s also racist and bigoted, by all definitions, to single out Israel – especially unfairly – when context is ignored or minimized to such an extent as to make the intentions of any Israel basher quite obvious.
I’m a Jew and a progressive Zionist. I’m not Sudanese, Tibetan, Chinese, Burmese, etc. This blog deals w. the I-P conflict, not the Tibet-China conflict. There are other blogs that deal with those situations & I appreciate their existence. But I wouldn’t tell anyone they couldn’t criticize Chinese policy in Tibet unless they first criticized all the other reprobate countries in the world.
About Palestinian tourism–surely you’re joking? You want to invite European tourists to enjoy the Mediterranean surf at Gaza beach where they might get shelled by the IDF? Or have them shop in the local souk where they might get into the middle of a targeted assassination or other military action by an IDF patrol?
@Yerushalimey: Israel can’t “deny responsibility” for the deaths because its shell caused them even IF (& this is by no means verified) a secondary explosion caused the deaths. It never ceases to amaze me how Israel’s staunch defenders accept IDF explanations or defenses at face value w/o any verification. And IDF “investigations” never end in the IDF accepting any culpability, even when the evidence is incontroveribly against it.
A secondary explosion goes off due to palestinian ‘militants’ being armed to the teeth and this too is Israel’s fault? Wow. When are the palestinian ‘militants’ ever responsible for anything? God forbid Israeli soldiers ever shoot at a Palestinian gunman or rocket launcher ever again…..they may have 100 pds. of TNT on them that could harm others a block away.
Is there any actual evidence of this “secondary explosion” or is it another case of “IDF investigation clears IDF” ? Because god forbid the IDF should ever be responsible for anything.
Haaretz is actually noting that the evidence for a secondary explosion is quite limited, based on some equivocal drone imagery which may or may not show a secondary explosion after the missile detonated. The fact that a missile was directed into a residential neighbourhood and detonated next to a hut made of tin siding doesn’t seem to be in dispute.
Okay, forget criticizing any other country’s policies – let’s stick to I-P only. Israel has messed up certainly, but how would you say the Palestinians have dropped the ball the past 40 years? Is the PA govt. not responsible for failing to do their part in ushering in Tikun Olam in that region? Examples being Camp David – how could Arafat planning and carrying out Intifada 2 during and right after Camp David / Taba be a preferable choice over trying to negotiate a settlement? How could Hamas terrorist policy since the Aug. 2005 disengagement be understood when occupation and all settlement activity in Gaza ended at that point nearly 3 years ago? They could have started building a state rather than attacking – and hundreds of lives could have been saved. Can you not agree that with responsible PA leadership, this fiasco should have been over years ago? How is this ‘mostly’ Israel’s fault?
As for tourism in the OT, my point easily works for 10 years ago – before “apartheid” and when it was safer for tourists to be in Gaza and the W.Bank. Policies in those areas were as bad then as now, so would it have been “kosher” for someone to criticize PA ads for tourism in the same manner you critize Israel now, as though the PA could somehow paint a pretty picture and cover up the dismal, inhumane conditions that existed there in 1998? Would it be considered hateful or bigoted to criticize the PA just as Israel is criticized now? Or would that be unfair for some reason?
Let’s try using equal weights and measures.
**As much as “Einstein’s” problem is with Richard, yes.
My problem isn’t with Richard – it’s with his views. This isn’t personal. Let’s just stick to facts and logic.
Thanks, Scott. I was just going to quote the Haaretz source but you beat me to it. The salient pt as you say is that the IDF cared little for civilians living in a hut a few meters fr. their alleged target (if there even was one).
Each side has never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity as Abba Eban used to say (though he blamed only the Arabs). There is plenty of blame to go around for ea. side as I’ve written here too many times to remember.
But blaming Arafat for Camp David’s failure is the Clinton-Barak spin & doesn’t jibe with reality. Barak made an offer that wasn’t sufficient. He knew it wouldn’t be as did Clinton. They decided they wanted to go ahead w. the summit anyway hoping that somehow a miracle would happen–& it didn’t.
Israeli occupation of Gaza didn’t end. It still goes on. Israel never negotiated its withdrawal with the Palestinians. A unilateral withdrawal is not a sign of willingness of embrace peace. Israel deserves no credit for the withdrawal since it never got anything in return for it. If it had negotiated the withdrawal w. the Palestinians & they had then violated the agreement, THEN you could blame them. But you can’t blame Palestinians for resisting an ongoing Occupation (or have you forgotten that the West Bank is still physically occupied?).
No, it is not entirely or even mostly the Palestinians’ fault. It is certainly much more Israel’s.
Richard,
Your response to my, “Israel has already denied direct responsibility” notably omits the word “direct.”
I was careful to qualify my statement because no one (as far as I know) has denied that a military action took place. Sorry you didn’t pick up on my cautious phrasing: I figured if you read the article whose URL I cited you’d understand why I specified “direct” responsibility.
Incidentally, in today’s Haaretz http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/979116.html
someone purported to be an Egyptian reporter repeats the claim he made yesterday that he witnessed the event, and his account corresponds with the IDF’s version. (I guess Haaretz can tell if the writer is emailing from Egypt. But I guess it’s up to you to decide who to believe…)
As to your amazement about how Israel’s staunch defenders “accept IDF explanations or defenses at face value w/o any verification”: it is matched by my amazement that Israel’s critics immediately swallow whole any report that puts Israel in a bad light.
“And IDF ‘investigations’ never end in the IDF accepting any culpability, even when the evidence is incontroveribly against it.”
I can’t tell whether or not you’re right about this, because the results of IDF investigations never seem to receive the same explosions of publicity that surround the allegations of IDF misfeasance and malfeasance. Funny how that pattern recurs. However, the IDF is scheduled to tell the Knesset the outcome of its investigation today (Wednesday), if you are at all interested in what the IDF has to say.
Richard: “If it had negotiated the withdrawal w. the Palestinians & they had then violated the agreement, THEN you could blame them.”
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. If we take your argument further, does it mean you believe that Israel, similarly can be held blameless because it hasn’t even made – let alone broken – an agreement with the Gazans? (I’m assuming that no such agreement exists. If there is an agreement that Israel made with the residents of Gaza, please tell me where I can find it.)
Now we’re getting into the realm of pilpul. If Gaza was occupying Israel and withdrew fr. a portion of Israeli land & expected Israel would end hostilities against it while it still retained more Israeli land–then yes, Israel might be justified in resisting such a continuing Occupation. Next far fetched question?
Regarding IDF investigations: the number of such which result in prosecutions, punishment or admissions of IDF culpability are so small as to be almost statistically insignificant. Yes, once in a blue moon someone is held accountable. Believe me (or not) I follow such things pretty carefully.
I’ve just read an Al Jazeera report about the Beit Hanoun incident which, if true, blows the lid off this thing. I’ll be writing about that later.
Richard,
You may be entering the realm of pilpul, but I wasn’t.
I asked if Israel can, as it appears according to your statement, be held blameless because it had made no agreement with Gaza. Instead of answering my question, you answered an entirely different question of your own about a hypothetical situation. I don’t want to appear antagonistic, but it now seems the only thing “far-fetched” about MY question was the hope that you would answer it directly and honestly.
I do regret pushing you up against the wall like this, because you clearly have some valuable things to say, but when you resort to very clumsy casuistry instead of allowing that you perhaps didn’t think your argument through carefully enough it makes me question your sincerity and judgment on this particular issue.
Richard – I’m afraid there’s a real arrogance in the tone in which you deal with comments (and in much of your commentaries). I agree with many of the political positions you take, but you seem to just full back on rote positions when challenged, and your tone is often exceptionally disturbing. I never claimed Israel’s position to be hunky-dory. I just said that there is nothing exceptional in this particular story – it’s the tourism board doing it’s job. You seem to be implying that – because of the matsav – it shouldn’t do it’s job. I would also suggest your blanket statements about Israeli society – “An Occupation. a nation adrift in despondency in the aftermath of the Lebanon war. A society buffeted by high-profile sex and corruption scandals.” – are wide of the mark, even leaving aside the cliched ‘dramatic pauses’. Perhaps that’s just what comes from writing about the place from thousands of miles away.
Most of my commenters don’t agree w. my views. Most are antagonistic (you are only mildly so) in expressing their disagreement. I react in kind when that happens. If you find my ‘tone exceptionally disturbing’ that’s something you’re going to have to deal with yrself. I can’t help you on that one & I make no apologies. If there are specific phrases that disturb you let me know & I can parse it out. But general comments like that one don’t give me much to go on.
I didn’t say Israel Tourism shouldn’t do its job. I said it should do its job in a honest way. This ad is the height of dishonesty or at least hypocrisy.
As for my social critique of Israeli society–I’m afraid you’ll have to complain to the very Israeli sources which informed me about these developments. I didn’t make them up. Even my general language in describing these issues is taken directly from Israeli sources, both individuals and media. Sorry you don’t like my dramatic pauses. I guess you’re not my ideal audience. And I have Israeli readers who don’t agree w. yr judgment of the inadequacy of my analysis of Israeli society.
Richard – name a tourist board in a conflict-ridden country which refers to its conflicts in promoting tourism.
As for the rest of what you wrote, in the words of the Doctor to Luke Rattigan – “it’s a long time since anyone’s said no to you, isn’t it?” I had already said I agree with many (although not all) of the political positions you take. I just find it astonishing that you think reading Israeli newspapers/blogs etc is sufficient for making blanket statements about Israelis society. Don’t you think you should show a little more humility, given that you write about Israel from Seattle? What do you know about its day-to-day rhythms, about its daily grind, its unwritten stories?
To be more specific: your tone is often arrogant, your turn of phrase is often rooted in cliches, and you don’t particularly engage with reasoned critique. It’s something you share with a lot of bloggers (left and right) writing on Israel, but it’s particularly disturbing.