Comments on: Israeli Chief Rabbi: Expel Gazans to Sinai, Make It ‘Like Arizona’

By: Ak

Ak — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:27:17 +0000

I largely agree with your response. (See my subsequent response to your latest blog entry.)
At this point, I wonder to what extent would Hamas be able to prove its credibility in the eyes of the Israeli government. One of the sticking point will be Israeli government’s open concern for weapon smuggling into Gaza. There will be people in Hamas who feel that weapon smuggling is a legitimate part of their continual resistance, while the Israeli security establishment will be paranoid about weapon smuggling into Gaza in the event of any ceasefire.
Can I borrow some lessons from the Irish experience here? It took IRA many years to finally agree to disarm. Many in Hamas will find halt to weapon smuggling very difficult pill to swallow.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:14:05 +0000

Aston Kwok: If you read my most recent post it contains a ceasefire proposal drafted by a settler rabbi and Hamas journalist who received approval of senior Hamas Gaza officials which guarantees an end to ALL rocket fire from all Palestinian sources. I agree that such an outcome is imperative for real peace and that Hamas must prove itself able to enforce such an outcome if it is to have any credibility. I believe that it can do so if it wants to do so & is motivated to do so. And I believe that if Israel puts on the table the provisions mentioned in the Froman ceasefire proposal that Hamas would prove itself credible. Can I prove this to you or even myself to my full satisfaction? No. But am I willing to test Hamas to see if it is credible? You bet.

By: Ak

Ak — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:47:56 +0000

Richard Silverstein said,

January 29, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

what is his solution to the overcrowded Gaza population

Gaza needs no other “solution” than removing the siege & allowing the people there to engage in normal commerce & travel. Allowing Gaza to have its own air & seaport so it can create a thriving economy along w. jobs. Of course, it (& Sderot as well) needs a truce with the IDF such as Hamas has offered numerous times to Israel.

Hmm… I recognize that ordinary Gazans desperately need to regain control over their airspace, seaports and border crossing to rebuild their economy. However, as far as I can understand, there still isn’t an adequate counter-response to the pro-Israeli argument, that there are still factions within Gaza that sees firing rockets into Sderot as legitimate acts of violence, and quite often they do it with the open support of the Hamas government. The offer of truce from Hamas is pretty meaningless since Hamas has stated in the past that it will not stop attacks on Israel by other factions from Gaza, such as Islamic Jihad. In fact it would not be too cynical to imagine Hamas providing logistical support to Islamic Jihad that fire rockets into Sderot. Correct me if I am wrong.

By: Z.

Z. — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:31:52 +0000

Arizona differs from Sinai in having a major river, the Colorado, for irrigation, etc. Sinai has no rivers. Mt. Sinai itself gets enough winter rainfall for some limited dry land agriculture, but the Sinai peninsula probably cannot sustain a larger population than at present.

The emptiest US state is N. Dakota. It has a semi-arid climate, not desert, and a major river, the Missouri, but great extremes of temperature. (There’s a reason only 500, 000 people live there!) The existing population probably doesn’t want new immigrants, either. (There are enough quarrels already between Dakota indians and White settlers!)

Sorry to interrupt politics with practicalities! Really, Amos Oz has the right idea: that you make peace with your enemies, not your friends.

Zhu Bajie

By: A.

A. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:34:35 +0000

s,
Metger is making a proposal. His proposal includes cooperation (and therefore acceptance) by America, England and the European Union. It is implicit, therefore, that it also requires acceptance by Egypt and the Palestinians because I don’t think that Metzger is so kooky that he thinks the US and EU would join Israel in invading Egypt conquering the Sinai desert and transferring the Gazan Arabs to there. I agree that this is not a realistic proposal that Egypt and the Hamas would accept, but it is not monstrous or hateful either.
Many Jews were in favor of establishing a Jewish homeland in Uganda (including Herzl at one point) or in Argentina or anywhere possible. Israel Zangwill established Jewish Territorialist Organization in 1905 and wanted to establish a Jewish homeland anywhere feasible and not necesarilly in the land of Israel. Today there are streets named after Zangwill in Israel. Nobody thinks he was a monster. These people searched for practical (in their view at the time) solutions to urgent problems. In the end, those that insisted that the Jewish state be established in the land of Israel prevailed.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:58:05 +0000

Shamai: Thanks for adding yr perspective. I would add that Metzger is a “nice” civilized Jew as opposed to outright rabid Jewish nationalists who would use terms like “expel” at the drop of a hat. So I wouldn’t expect him to be so blatant in his terminology. But Shamai & I have been observers of the Israeli political scene for decades & we know the implications & nuances of statements like his.

As for Solution Seeker’s proposal–while it might have merit in theoretical terms no country in the Middle East is about to willingly sell or trade its land to another no matter how laudable the intent of the project is. I’m afraid that Gazans will have to settle (hopefully) for a peace settlement that will enable them to rebuild their society & economy. Those who wish will be able to move to the West Bank or emigrate. And those who remain will be able to earn a living. Gaza will always be a densely populated & perhaps very poor place. But as a free place it will have many more options than it now has.

By: ss

ss — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:31:09 +0000

Thanks for clarifying that S.

I like my proposal better.

By: s.

s. — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:53:04 +0000

Richard, Solution Seeker, Amir et. al:
I really don’t see the point of all this Talmudic-style discussion over the interpretation of his words. Here’s what he said:

“My opinion is, and I didn’t tell it until today or yesterday to anyone, I think that there is a solution. If American, England, European Union, will take care to build a new Palestinian country in Sinai desert between Egypt and Israel, and to take all the poor people from Gaza—even now they have such a bad economic situation very bad – to move them to a wonderful new country with trains, with buses, with cars, like in Arizona in America.”
(emphasis added)

“to move them to a wonderful new country” – what’s ambiguous about that? Not “they will want to leave”, not even “let’s make conditions so miserable and horrific they will opt to make an exodues toward Egypt”.
Some things don’t have to be spelled out. In the Israeli-Palestinian context, when someone suggests “to move” a people to another country, it has only one meaning: forcefully transfer them. In international law parlance, it is called a war crime. It’s nice that you want to be melamed zchut on this Metzger, but, sorry, it doesn’t fly.