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I don’t find this surprising, seems like a logical step along the way of this great love affair between Christian Zionists and right-wing Israelis. I do find it ironic and hypocritical that Zionist zealots will brand anyone who criticizes Israel with the “anti-Semitic” label, yet take money and support from people who make no secret of the fact that they want us Jews to disappear from the face of the earth.
–ellen
Yes – according to those types we need to be “perfected”… And heaven help us if we want to send our kids to public schools in any jurisdiction they hold sway.
Speaking of public schools…
“.South Carolina church adds foot-washing to its shoe giveaway in public schools.”
No joke:
This website, http://www.jewsonfirst.org/, defends the First Amendment against the Christian Right, and has the So.Carolina story.
ellen
This is a terrible blood libel you are propagating. Not only were zionists not responsible for the synagogue bombing in Iraq which killed four including a 12 year old boy, but two innocent zionist activists had confessions tortured out of them and were executed.
http://jewishjournal.com/iranianamericanjews/2007/08/johnathan-cook-is-wrong-about-iranian.html
Read the comments as well. Interesting exchange at the end of them with the author and another Iranian Jew.
Blood libel? Typical histrionics from Amir. First, even if the Muslim Brotherhood WAS responsible for the original bombing a member of the Zionist underground tacitly admitted that he conducted terror actions after his comrades were arrested in order to prove they weren’t involved. While his motives might’ve been righteous, all of this certainly contributed to an atmosphere of terror among Jews & led to the emigration of virtually the entire community.
Historic references confirm that almost all Iraqi Jews who left believed that Israel had committed the terror actions. Are they believers in blood libel as well?
Israeli agents also tried terror in the Lavon Affair directed against Egypt though this was not for the purpose of stampeding Egyptian Jews to emigrate.
Regarding the Iranian Jews who don’t want to leave Iran, I can only point out that large numbers of Jews who had the chance to leave Nazi Germany also didn’t go, for many of the same reasons. So what’s the point?
Regarding Eckstein’s salary, it was revealed here in Israel that “Peace Now” activisits Yoav Oppenheimer and Dror Etkes (who recently had a falling out with the organization and left it) receive nice salaries paid for by several countries in the European Union. Yossi Beilin also has receieved a lot of money from the EU. Lots of peope in different parts of the political spectrum know how to latch on to those non-Jews who want to interfere in Israel and Jewish affairs and who are willing to pay them handsomely for carrying out the purposes which are not necessarily in the interests of Israel or the Jewish people.
A correction to a comment you made in your posting about the Shalem Center. You said the “Ariel College is unaccredited” (I have no idea what point you were trying to make in saying this). My daughter attends there and I can assure you it is accredited. It is one of the largest institutions of higher learning in Israel (and has a good number of Arab students as well). It is in the process of getting accreditation as a University.
The Jewish Agency will come to regret this. Jesus will not return when the Xtn Zionists want him to, and they are likely to blame Israel, Jews in the US, etc. I’ve already met individual who thought Dispensationalism was a Zionist plot!
Zhu Bajie
1) Iran is NOT Nazi Germany; 2) One might find it a lot easier to pay Iranian Jews to go to the US.
Zhu Bajie
Comparing Iran to Nazi Germany is absurd. The Forward had anarticle on the failure on the campaign to recruit Iranian Jews to come to Israel. With regard to Jews in Iran, it wrote:
“HIAS declined to comment on its efforts to promote emigration, but some observers claim that the main reason Iranian Jews have chosen to stay is that they are, for the most part, free to practice their faith. “Iranian Jews have a comfortable Jewish life,” said Meir Javedanfar, an Iranian-born Middle East analyst now living in Israel.
At a time when Tehran and Jerusalem trade barbs and threats, the 25,000 Jews of Tehran, Shiraz and Yazd attend packed synagogues, send their children to Jewish schools, buy their meat in kosher butchers and are even exempt from prohibitions on alcohol. This modus vivendi is the result of a compact between the leadership of the Jewish community and the Iranian authorities, whereby Jews are permitted to practice their faith as a community on the condition that they remain out of politics and do not speak out in favor of Israel.”
So as long as the Jews agree to pretend to be happy living in a totalitarian dictatorship, they are fine. Very nice. How do you know the situation will remain as it is? How many of you out there would like to live in Iran?
Good post.
Actually, the exceprt I posed quoted an Iranian-born analyst livng in Israel, Meir Javedanfar. Why would Meir Javedanfar lie? It’s not like he has any interest in pleasing the IRI.
No one has said the situation for Iranian Jews (or any other Iranians) is ideal, just that it’s wrong to make claims of widespread persecution, let alone make absurd comparisons to Nazi Germany. I suppose things could change, as they could anywhere, but there has been a radical Islamic Republic in Iran since 1979 with rabid anti-Israel rhetroic, so it’s not as if Jews are confronting anything unprecedented with Ahmadinejad.
RS – I sent you an e-mail concerning the e-mail you sent me but was blocked by your spam filter.
Peter, Israeli Arabs are allowed to practice their faith. Their mosques are packed. They can buy Halal food. Christain Arabs can even buy pork and celebrate their holydays. Israeli Arabs, as opposed to Iranian Jews, are even allowed to get invoved in politics and speak out in favor of Israel’s enemies and against the state of Israel. So I guess everthing is fine and dandy.
Amir,
First you compare the Jews of Iran to the Jews in Nazi Germany. Now you are comparing them to Israeli Arabs. Did you really mean to compare the Israeli Arabs to Nazi Germany’s Jews, or did your hasbara wires just get a bit crossed in the delivery? Next time, if you are going to try to pull off the old “Jews in X Country” are treated just like in Nazi Germany gambit, perhaps you shouldn’t change gears mid-argument lest you hoist yourself on your own petard.
This is Amir trolling through the comment threads here looking to both create an argument & change the subject. This thread had nothing to do w. the treatment of Israeli Arabs in Israel which is reprehensible by the standards of most western democracies.
But regarding standards of freedom and liberty does Israel wish to be compared to Iran’s authoritarian regime (in which case it would come out looking pretty good) or the standards of western democracies (in which case it would come out distinctly on the short end of the stick). But I warn you Amir, we’ve argued & debated the subject of the discriminatory treatment of Israeli Arabs in several other threads. If you want to hijack this thread I won’t let you.
In a previous comment you accused me w/o any basis of “bashing Israel.” If you want to reply as I insisted before I allow you to that comment again, then do so here in this thread or use the Contact link to do so. Otherwise, as I said I may discontinue yr access to this site until you apologize for that comment.
Zed: I think you may’ve confused the fact that Bar_Kochba said some of the things you’re attributing to Amir.
This is preposterous. Peace groups on both sides of the conflict receive funding from the EU because the EU is trying to foster peace bet. both sides. The EU’s funding is transparent. It’s not making anyone rich. Eckstein, on the other hand, is not trying to promote Israeli-Palestinian peace. He is trying to create a maximalist Jewish state that will never be at peace with its neighbors. He’s trying to bring near the End Times on behalf of his evangelical clients.
By my lights, any donor who advances the chances for peace is doing so in “the interests of Israel and the Jewish people.” I have no problem with EU funding. I have worlds of problems with Eckstein exploiting evangelical Christian theological mania in order to promote his own well-being & an extreme Israeli nationalist position.
As for the Jews in Iran, the traditional Zionist view is that no Jews should live in the Diaspora and all should come to Israel. A more Diasporist position seeks for all Jews to live as Jews in their current homelands & preserve their Jewish traditions there. I believe that if Iranian Jews choose to remain there they should. I’m not going to second guess their choices. Only a myopic Zionist like perhaps Bar_Kochba, would have the chutzpah to do that. I should point out that while I AM a Zionist I believe that the Diaspora is equally important to Jewish life, which is NOT a Zionist concept.
Regarding Ariel College, there is only one accrediting authority in Israel for higher educational institutions. Ariel has failed to gain accreditation from this body. So who are you claiming has accredited Ariel?
Well, what do you know?…an article from Ha’aretz about an organized group of Iranian Jews making aliyah with this organization’s help! Note how some are afraid to walk around with a kippah and the prohibition on learning Hebrew. Who said the Jews have it “good” in Iran?
Here is an excerpt:
————————————————
Israel welcomes largest group of Iran olim since Islamic Revolution
By Anshel Pfeffer, Haaretz Correspondent, and The Associated Press
A group of 40 new immigrants from Iran touched down at Ben-Gurion International Airport on Tuesday, the largest since the fall of the Shah and Iran’s Islamic Revolution in 1979.
The immigrants, from Tehran, Shiraz, and Isfahan, each received a $10,000 grant from international Jewish organizations.
Relatives screamed in delight and threw candy at the newcomers as they emerged into the airport reception hall after a long bureaucratic procedure.
Two brothers, Yosef and Michael, said they were glad to be in Israel. They declined to give their family name in order to protect relatives.
“I feel so good,” said Yosef, 16. “I just saw all of my family. You can’t put that into words.”
Michael, 15, said he told all his friends where he was going, and they wanted to come along. “I was scared in Iran as a Jew,” he said. “I would never be able to wear a skullcap in the streets there.”
Others said they felt safe in Iran, discounting warnings that Jews could become targets.
The brothers arrived with their parents and a sister and were greeted by their grandparents, whom they had not seen since the grandparents left for Israel six years ago.
“I’m in heaven,” gushed Avraham Dayan, 63, waiting for his son, daughter-in-law and grandson. He said he had not seen his 38-year-old son in 11 years, missing his son’s wedding and the birth of his grandson.
A total of 200 Iranian Jews have immigrated to Israel in 2007, compared to only 65 in 2006.
The immigrants who arrived Tuesday flew to Israel through a third country, although which country cannot be published at this time.
There are an estimated 25 to 28,000 Jews currently living in Iran. The Islamic government does grant them relative freedom of religion, although they are prevented from learning Hebrew and face certain emigration restrictions.
—- cut portion of article
“Our feeling is that this is very similar to the situation of Jews in Germany in the 1930s,” Eckstein said of the threat facing Jews in Iran. “By the time they realize it’s not going to blow over, it’ll be too late. All it needs is a U.S. or Israeli strike against Iran’s nuclear program for them to come down strong on the local Jewish population.”
Benjamin Yakobi, 16, has lived in Israel seven years. Waiting for his cousin, he said Israel is safer than Iran. “Here we are all Jewish, and we are not worried that someone will do something,” he said.
In 2000, Iranian authorities arrested 10 Jews, convicted them of spying for Israel and sentenced them to prison terms ranging from four to 13 years. An appeals court later reduced their sentences under international pressure and eventually freed them.
—cut rest of article
Regarding Ariel College..their degrees are recognized as official academic degrees. I don’t know what you are referring to.
Richard, you said:
———————
By my lights, any donor who advances the chances for peace is doing so in “the interests of Israel and the Jewish people.” I have no problem with EU funding. I have worlds of problems with Eckstein exploiting evangelical Christian theological mania in order to promote his own well-being & an extreme Israeli nationalist position.
———————
Of course, I look on it exactly the opposite…I see the EU trying to damage Israel in order to kowtow to Arab interests, without any concern for Israel’s rights or security, and Eckstein and his Christian allies working for Israel’s interests, for whatever reasons.
Since this is a tie, then I think the point boils down to whether foreign non-Jewish interests should contribute money to Israeli groups who are carrying out activities they approve of. It may interest you to know that Rabbis in Judea/Samaria do have some reservations about accepting money from Christian groups and there has been debate about it in their scholarly journals. The main concern is hidden missionary activities. What the Christians might think about what is going to happen at some distant point at “the end of days” from their point of view doesnt’ really interest me as long as they are helping in the here and now.
It’s amazing how bar_kochba132 & Amir love to put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I ever say that Jews “have it good” in Iran, just that claims of widesread persection were bogus.
And it’s not true that Hebrew is forbidden in Iran. See this video about Jews in Iran, for instanc, which includes scenes of Iranian Jews praying in Hebrew,
It’s amazing how bar_kochba132 & Amir love to put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I ever say that Jews “have it good” in Iran, just that claims of widesread persection were bogus.
And it’s not true that Hebrew is forbidden in Iran. See this video about Jews in Iran, for instance, which includes scenes of Iranian Jews praying in Hebrew,
Peter H-you are correct about Hebrew not being forbidden, even though the article did say that. There was an interview on Israel radio today with an Israeli correspondent who was working out of New York two years ago, and she visited the Jews of Teheran and went into the synagogue. She asked them about their situation…they were leery to talk to her but they did tell her that they are allowed to study Hebrew.
Regarding “religious persecution”, I have done some reading recently about people who visited Syria. Syria is also a totalitarian police state and if I understood correctly what they wrote, I would conclude that fear of the regime and secret police is much more palpable in Syria than it is in Iran. However the person who wrote about his experiences pointed out that Assad’s Ba’athist regime is secular so there is tolerance for all religions and sects. Thus “tolerance of religious worship” is nowhere the same thing as “freedom” in general.
Nothing quite gets my blood boiling like the Rapturists. In a dramatic case of truth being stranger than fiction, these people are willing and eager to bring on an apocalyptic world war in the name of a bad science fiction fantasy. It’s beyond my understanding why any decent person would want anything to do with them. The Israeli right is playing the Rapturists for suckers, as is its prerogative, I suppose; it’s just unfortunate that the Palestinians are the ones who are really paying the price.
“which I might add includes the notion that one-third of all Jews will be killed”
FWIW, this article
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/north7.html
puts it at two-thirds.
I’d like you to point to a single instance in which the EU did anything that damaged Israel’s interests or “kowtowed” to Arab interests.
And who do you think provides Eckstein with the scores of millions he uses to fund settlement projects ea. yr? Himself and other Jews? Not a chance. It’s all “foreign non-Jewish interests” e.g. evangelical Christians.
Not a very defensible ethical perspective in my book. The fact that evangelicals not only provide millions for settlements, but support the most extremist positions on Israeli policy vis a vis its Arab neighbors, all because of their fervor to bring the Second Coming, Armageddon, a World War in which 1/3 of Jews will die & the rest subsequently convert to Christianity–all this is very relevant & should make any sober Jew reject such support. Anyone who foresees the death of 1/3 of my people is not a friend of mine & frankly I don’t see how he can be a friend of yours unless you stretch to the limits of credulity the definition of Friend of Israel.
That’s right. I’m always confused about whether 1/3 or us will fry or 2/3s. So the 1/3 will be the “surviving remnant” of Israel spoken of in the prophets (is it Isaiah or Ezechiel?).
This is from a friend who teaches at an Israeli university & knows whereof he speaks:
Tel Aviv Univesity is built on Arab land from the former village of Sheikh Munis, now called Ramat Aviv, which was taken without any compensation from the Arabs who owned it and who fled as a result of Israel’s War of Independence (which their side started) and are now most likely in camps in the Gaza Strip.
I see you do agree that I was correct in stating Ariel College is indeed accredited as a college, which is what I stated. They have applied for University status.
Thank you for pointing out the terrible injustice upon which one of Israel’s great academic institutions was built. The Arabs from whom this land was stolen deserve compensation and will hopefully receive it one day. One great injustice does not justify another.
Ariel is accredited by a right wing body that supervises education within the Territories. That doesn’t sound like full accreditation to me. That sounds like accreditation that is accepted within the Territories. Probably not within Israel itself and certainly not in the international community. And it will likely never receive university accreditation unless Bibi Netanyahu comes to power.
The College of Judea and Samaria (the official name of the Ariel College) is one of the largest institutions of higher education in Israel. It has thousands of graduates (most are engineers) working in industry in Israel. As I told you, my daughter is studying engineering there. Before she enrolled in the school, she investigated how well its graducates are doing in the job markent in Israel and she found they are doing very well. Israeli government and industry accepts their degrees as valid. There are many Arabs studying there. I think there is an important point you tend to overlook….most Israelis (I would guess at least 80%) do not think about the “territories” (i.e. Judea/Samaria or the West Bank or whatever you want to call it) and the Jewish presence there the way you do…i.e. as “illegal”. I would include at least part of the Left in this category. They may say that it is not wise or practical to have Jews living there, but they won’t say it is “illegal”. The government doesn’t look at it that way. Most Israeli have friends or relatives living there, many work there. Thus, if Netanyahu comes to power and they grant University status, no one, except for the vociferous minority will give a second thought to it. Of course, in my comments about Tel Aviv University, I am attempting to show that it would seem to many to be hypocritical for professors and students there to say that Ariel College is “illegal and immoral”, but their school isn’t. I am sure the Arabs of Sheikh Munis would think so.
I would like to add that you pointing out that Ariel College might not be recognized by the “international community”, the same can be said of Israel’s capital Jerusalem, which is also not recognized by the international community. So what? I don’t know anybody here in Israel that loses sleep over that.