In May, 2007, a Zogby International poll indicated that 72 percent of American Jews “strongly support” and 7 percent “somewhat” support a “peace agreement that included the establishment of an independent, secure Pal. state alongside an independent secure Israeli state, and resolved final status issues of Jersualeam, refugees and borders.” Those people have not disappeared, but in many cases, their sense that an enduring settlement can and therefore should be reached any time soon were dashed after the mini-civil war in Gaza. All this means is that fewer Jews are willing to take a leap of faith about a Palestinian state NOW because of their sense –right or wrong– of the inherent instability of such a state and the danger it would pose to Israelis.

I don’t think anyone should over-react to the latest poll. It’s a sign of despair, not of the victory of right-wing ideology.

But for all the reasons I described I don’t believe it will happen that way. Even if those in your camp had the money to get the ear of the politicans it would still be a long drawn out struggle against the more powerful and monied right wing groups. And I think everyone sees time running out on both Israel and Palestine..

I am not trying to downplay the importance of Jews being involved. I am just looking at where the most pushback has come from on this and particulary lately. And I am not trying to discourage Jewish peace activist from being in this battle. I just think that bottom line the “realist” within the US interest sector who are working within the government agencies are the ones who are going to change policy regarding the Isr-Pal situtation.

In other words I think they are going to beat the Jewish peaces orgs to the punch on Isr-Pal situtation because they are now seeing the Isr-Pal conflict as bumping up against the US interest in our ME FUBAR. Aand they are in more of a position to actually change policy.

And I am not trying to insult anyone here but your reply and Ellens also affirms part of my contention that it is hard for Jews to be objective when looking at what is going on “overall”.
Both your replies went straight to a defensive posture regarding Jews or the Jewish peace movement exclusively. While I am looking at the entire picture of all the various groups and interest involved in the Israel-Palestine problem , in and out of the government and in particular at current changes in US moves in the ME associated with Iraq, Iran and Israel.

Of course it is important for liberal Jews to be involved. But being a hard core realist myself I understand that peace for Isr-Pal is most likely not going to be settled until the national interest purist in the US see it to the US’s own advantage to impose or pressure, even covertly, some kind of settlement.

But go for it, every effort helps in the fight for some kind of peace for the region.

Without Jews supporting the peace movement it doesn’t matter how many non-Jews do–it just won’t work. Contrary to Carroll’s belief we need ea. other in this project.

I think my eyes are pretty wide open on this issue and stand by my description of what I said was “part” of the equation in why Jews alone can’t get more traction with congress on the peace side of Isr-Pal.

I have been following the Isr-Pal conflict as part of the ME issue like a lot of Americans since 911 made the ME an area of interest for the public and have looked at discussions and positions of a wide range of Jews, Gentiles and particulary those in organizations who work on the US-Israel relations.

To me Rosenberg is a good example of a dovist approach and a realist approach, who is still ardent in his basic support of Israel. I also see some Jews who are divorced from Israel emotionally and are objective but think they are still in the minority as far as being activist and contributors who could have some influence.

I have watched the discussion on this in this country evolve over the past 6 years and a lot of it from the realist, both Jews and Gentiles, and both the right and left Israel side of Jewish organizations and indvivduals I think supports my opinion.

In my personal experience with Jewish friends who aren’t particulary political, or pro or con Israel either way, they are, from peer pressure or conditioning, pretty much keeping their heads down and wishing the whole US Jewish Israel Palestine issue would go away.

More and more, Jews are questioning US support for Israel. Some of these Jews, who are apparently not in your field of vision, want to withdraw all support, some want support conditional on a civilized behavior by Israel, such as respect for the Geneva Convention.

It is the height of ignorance to assume that because one is not conversant with something, it doesn’t exist.

ellen