Notice the first paragraph of the qoute in his opinion which I’ve heard many times from him, but have never heard him, or you, back up

You feel that the fact that Israeli journalists uncritically quote IDF spokespeople needs to be proven? I see it virtually every day I read the Israeli press but especially when the IDF kills Palestinian civilians or engages in an offensive operation. This charge is patently self-evident & if you doubt it then you too are reading yr own media uncritically.

Levy’s views toward the IDF & Israeli democracy fluctuate depending on the day & the subject. I’ve also read him recently tell a French TV correspondent that a particular IDF killing made him ashamed to be an Israeli. But I do take yr pt. that Levy feels the IDF treats him decently which is important.

What can you say about the army’s relationship with journalists?

I can tell you mainly about the army’s relationship toward Israeli journalists. All the military correspondents, they all go with the army, they quote the army, they are so uncritical about the army in the last two years. If you try to criticize, they tell you, “Look at the United States. Look at the press there. Look at the media there. They are much worse than us. Nobody (there) asks any (critical) questions about Afghanistan.”

So most of the media is very faithful, patriotic. But I must tell you that even toward someone like me, on the official level they are very fair with me. They give me the full freedom to really operate. They know what I’m writing and still they let me in on a regular basis. I can meet anyone. I must tell you that from this point of view Israel is a real democracy. They always say Israel is a real democracy toward Israeli Jews. I’m Israeli, I am Jewish and I really enjoy full democracy

Notice the first paragraph of the qoute in his opinion which I’ve heard many times from him, but have never heard him, or you, back up. In the second paragraph (the one I emphasized) he is speaking from his personal experience so it has much more legitimacy.

I think they have better things to do than to fact check for Gideon Levy.

I am virtually certain that Levy is detested by the Shin Bet & IDF. You can be damn sure if they had a chance to embarrass him by pointing out he’d been duped or gotten a story wrong they’d relish the opportunity. I only wish the IDF spent its time as wisely as you seem to think it does.

If any journalists present the IDF version of disputable events as facts without independant corraboration or without attributing the details to the IDF spokesperson, then he is not a worthy journalist but a mouthpiece for the IDF.

Surely you must know that most Israeli journalists esp. security correspondents do precisely that. The overwhelming benefit of the doubt is almost always given to the IDF. Wild speculative theories passed off by Shin Bet spooks & IDF intelligence analysts are reported as fact w/o substantiation, clarification or explanation. There are some exceptions to the rule of course. While there is some investigative journalism within Israeli media the tradition is nothing like what it is here. Part of the reason is military censorship which stops such probing cold.

You can be damn sure that if Gideon Levy ever got a story wrong the Shin Bet & IDF intelligence would be all over it.

I think they have better things to do than to fact check for Gideon Levy. Gideon Levy’s column’s appear in the op-ed page which is how they should be regarded; as opinion, not fact.

The IDF have never been known to do that now have they?

If any journalists present the IDF version of disputable events as facts without independant corraboration or without attributing the details to the IDF spokesperson, then he is not a worthy journalist but a mouthpiece for the IDF.

I often back my claims with links and the comment gets blocked by your spam filter - such as in this case

Yes, my spam filter is pretty tough on URLs. But when you get that msg. pls. just send me a quick e mail & I’ll find the comment & rescue it.
It should be easy enough if you remember any unique words fr. the interview to find it on the web. I’d feel a whole lot more comfortable commenting on what Levy actually said rather than yr interpretation of what he said.

from experience we know that they often lie

You can be damn sure that if Gideon Levy ever got a story wrong the Shin Bet & IDF intelligence would be all over it. If other right wing journalists don’t trust or like his reporting they can dig into his stories & prove the weakness of them. That’s what’s done here in the States all the time. How do you think we discovered the lies Judy Miller was peddling?

I’m still waiting for you to present a Palestinian lie that Levy reported as truth. That’s the crux of this entire stupid argument we’re having. Until you can, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

the al-Dura incident is probably a hoax

This is laughable. First, it has nothing to do with Levy whose reporting you’ve accused of being propaganda because it supposedly isn’t reliable. Levy didn’t create the Dura story. Second, you haven’t even proven the Dura story is a hoax. C’mon.

Levy uncritically accepts the probable lie that the Palestinian girl you wrote of lately was killed by a rubber bullet

The Palestinian girl has a name & I wish you’d take a few seconds to Google it here & use it. If God forbid you died I assure you I’d use yr name & not call you an ‘Israeli-American male.’ The dead deserve their names.

It is not a probable lie. If it is you prove it is. I’ve presented evidence from the commander admitting that his soldiers fired that day on those children. He even tacitly admits that she died from the firing. Why haven’t the actual police testified about what happened? Why has the investigation ended w. no serious inquiry?

every story the Fatah feeds him

I REALLY resent the insulting, mistrustful tone of yr commentary on everything that Palestinians do or say. The Aramin story was not “fed” to him by anyone. It’s no wonder that the average Israeli may never be able to make peace with Palestinians. With crude, racist attitudes like yours as the norm peace is a hopeless pipedream.

And you should talk about “feeding” stories to the media. The IDF have never been known to do that now have they? How ’bout every day of the wk & twice on Sunday?

Free speech, journalistic bias, left-leaning liberalism, right-wing pragmatism, religious certainty and manifold destiny; the list of motivations is certainly a long one - and growing longer all the time.

It all resembles a classic logjam, one in which new logs are constantly being added to those already in place and where each new crisis and each new death only serves to reinforce the structure, maintaining it in being, increasing it in permanence.

It’s of no use trying to remove these logs one by one. More will simply keep coming. This logjam needs to be blown out of the water but carefully, of course, and in a more or less controlled manner. The alternative is to let it build to such an extent that its eventual dissolution must carry all before it.

The tricky bit here is knowing what explosives to use and where to place them for maximum effect.

As you know, I’ve always had a preference for this particular brand: http://yorketowers.blogspot.com.

Others may favour milder forms of intervention but that risks leaving the logjam still firmly in place. Best to get the whole thing over and done with once and for all. Otherwise what’s left is mere micro-management of the situation - never much of an option when tackling a logjam as big as this one.

I do think a valid part of what M.J. is saying is that no one on Capitol Hill or the corridors of power wants to know how many Palestinian children were killed this past year or how they died. And that only adds to the tragedy.

“This article illustrates one reason I love Israel.
“No, I obviously do not love Israel because of the murders of children the article describes. I love Israel because an article like this can appear in a newspaper that is the New York Times of Israel — when it could not appear in the real New York Times or any major media outlet here. … Read this article and see what it is like in a place where the far right does not intimidate the press into silence.”
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/sep/28/the_dead_children_of_palestine

Now I fully understand what Rosenberg means, and that he’s not defending the killing of Palestinians. But it is still very discouraging to see the nominally Left so desperate to support Zionism that it can present this story as having something to do with free-speech.

It reminds me of Golda Meir’s quote about not being able to forgive the Palestinians for “making us kill their children.” Something is grotesquely out of proportion here.

He provides the Palestinian side without verification by his own admission

Another unsubstantiated claim. If you have the substantiation then present it. I have no idea what you’re saying about my spam filter.

He is one of the only Arab affairs correspondents that does not speak Arabic, and I believe relies on local or Fatah tranlators. Quoting “witnesses” as I have said before is risky. Just this week the Fatah pulled one over on the Jerusalem Post with a false story with false witnesses.

All of which is irrelevant to Levy since you provide no example of him ever printing a false story. And he runs rings around most other Arab affairs reporters who do speak Arabic. And I wasn’t aware that coverage of Arab affairs was so good anyway among the Israeli media. So a lot of good knowing Arabic has done for their coverage.

I have no sympathy for JPost & if someone manipulated them they deserved it. They are, except for a few of the columnists, a bunch of sloppy, ideologically slanted journalists.

Since Gideon Levy does not speak Arabic and by his own admission does even try to verify the truthfulness of the version of events presented to him, his writing is particularly suspect.

No, you get no traction here with crap like that. If his work is suspect then you prove it. If you can’t prove it then you’re talkin’ trash & we’ll see that for what it is.