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Aussie Dave (isn’t it churlish, Dave not to link to my blog when I’ve linked to yours; and isn’t the ‘anti-Israel’ calumny a bit tiresome by now??) and his allies commenting here are up in arms over my post about the three Palestinian children killed by the IDF. And I’m a VERY BAD Jew for allegedly caring only about Palestinian lives, and not Israeli. Hey, go ahead take your best shot. But then spend a few minutes reading what one of Israel’s best journalists has to say on the same subject. How do you defame Gideon Levy? How do you belittle his commitment to Israel? How do you frame him as a Palestinian dupe?
I don’t usually post all or even large portions of articles. But in this case, I want everyone (especially those who have attacked me) to read this because it’s important:
Again children. Five children killed in Gaza in eight days. The public indifference to their killing – the last three, for example, were accorded only a short item on the margins of page 11 in Yedioth Ahronoth, a sickening matter in itself – cannot blur the fact that the IDF is waging a war against children. A year ago, a fifth of those killed in the “Summer Rain” operation in Gaza were children; during the past two weeks, they comprised a quarter of the 21 killed. If, heaven forbid, children are hurt in Sderot, we will have to remember this before we begin raising hell.
The IDF explains that the Palestinians make a practice of sending children to collect the Qassam launchers. However, in this case, the children killed were not collecting launchers. The first two were killed while collecting carob fruit and the next three – according to the IDF’s own investigation – were playing tag. But even if we accept the IDF’s claim that there is a general trend of sending children to collect launchers (which has not been proven), that should have brought about an immediate halt to firing at launcher collectors.
But the IDF does not care whether its victims are liable to be children. The fact is that it shoots at figures it considers suspicious, with full knowledge – according to its own contention – that they are liable to be children. Therefore, an IDF that fires at launcher collectors is an army that kills children, without any intention of preventing this. This then is not a series of unfortunate mistakes, as it is being portrayed, but rather reflects the army’s contempt for the lives of Palestinian children and its terrifying indifference to their fate.
A society that holds ethical considerations in high regard would at least ask itself: Is it permissible to shoot at anyone who is approaching the launchers, even if we know that some of these people may be small children, lacking in judgment, and thus not punishable? Or are we lifting all restraints on our war operations? Even if we accept the IDF’s claims that its sophisticated vision devices do not enable them to distinguish between a 10-year-old boy and an adult, the IDF cannot evade its responsibility for this criminal action. Even if we assumed a completely distorted assumption that anyone who goes near the launchers is subject to death, the fact that children are involved should have changed the rules. Add to this the fact that the firing at launcher collectors has halted the Qassams, or even reduce their number, and you arrive at another chilling conclusion: The IDF shoots at children to wreak vengeance and punish.
No child in Sderot is more secure as a result of this killing. On the contrary.
Anyone who takes an honest look at the progression of events during the past two months will discover that the Qassams have a context: They are almost always fired after an IDF assassination operation, and there have been many of these. The question of who started it is not a childish question in this context. The IDF has returned to liquidations, and in a big way. And in their wake there has been an increase in Qassam firings.
That is the truth, and they are hiding it from us. When Gabi Ashkenazi and Ehud Barak assumed their positions, the reins were loosened. If Barak were a representative of the political right, perhaps a public outcry would have already been sounded against the IDF’s wild actions in Gaza. But everything is permitted to Barak, and even the fact that the victims are children does not matter – not to him and not to the Israeli public.
Yes, the children of Gaza gather around the Qassams. It is practically the only diversion they have in their lives. It is their amusement park. Those who arrogantly preach to their parents “to watch over them” have never visited Beit Hanoun. There is nothing there, except for the filthy alleys and meager homes. Even if it is true that those launching the Qassams are taking advantage of these miserable children (which has yet to be proven), this should not shape our moral portrait. Yes, it is permissible to exercise restraint and caution. Yes, it is not always necessary to respond, especially when the response ends up killing children.
The way to stop the firing of Qassams is not through indiscriminate killing. Every launcher can be replaced. The start of the school year bodes ill, for us and for them. Anyone who truly seeks to stop the firing of Qassams should reach a cease-fire agreement with the current government in Gaza. That is the only way and it is possible. The liquidations, the shelling and the killing of children will work in exactly the opposite direction of what is intended. In the meantime, look what is happening to us and to our army.
Tags: aussie-dave, children, gideon-levy, haaretz, Israel Defense Forces
No, not 100% success. But the number of innocent civilians killed by IDF action is huge. I have absolutely no trust that the IDF will learn anything fr. their terrible blunder in this case. They almost never seem to learn fr. mistakes & hardly ever acknowledge any. I’m sure if they actually intended to review their procedures they would’ve said so by now so as to let the world know that they care about killing innocent children. Their silence is more revealing than your certainty that they will learn something. And btw, what will they learn? At the very least they should upgrade their surveillance capability so they can tell who they’re about to blow to bits & whether its a small child or full grown adult.
You’re an intelligent person but the definition of insanity is someone trying the same behavior that failed previously without learning a single thing fr. their mistake. Now, I won’t say YOU are insane. But the IDF policy certainly verges on this. You had previous operations against Gaza to do precisely what you claim they need to do now. Remember Summer Rain?? Did that succeed? Of course it didn’t. But you know what: if you & the IDF want to continue in yr insane belief that what failed before will somehow now miraculously succeeed–gesund a heit. Go for it. It only further degrades Israel’s position on the world stage & further discredits its claim it is interested in peace.
I’d argue that if such an operation would succeed or ever did succeed I might speak differently. But by the very nature of this war and all insurgent wars–there are no pure military solutions. And in this case there isn’t even a partial military solution since the IDF flat out is a failure.
Spoken like a person who is much less intelligent than I believe you are. If you don’t know what there is to negotiate far be it fr. me to enlighten you. Be satisfied in yr blissful ignorance & certainty that Israel is doing the right thing (or would be doing the right thing if it only came down harder on the Palestinians).
John, I shouldn’t be here and thus I haven’t been over at the Towers of Yorke for quite some time now. These exchanges are very interesting for me, since just as Flava, I have to admit that I once thought our dear Richard was far too impulsive & emotional, too easily angered by nitwits. I suggested more humor once, maybe had helpful PR approaches in mind. But now I start understand.
As a German I am caught – from early on – in what feels like a net with no escape: the leaders and their sheep. Or the authoritarians and their followers.
On my reading list in this respect: http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
My response was based on the trigger phrase: “Geez, that never happens.” What utter hypris!
And beneath my phrase: “Because of the benevolent hegemon, or because of what? Never?” I was reminded of something that would take to long to explain here. A very special private exchange with the Military Historian Marin van Creveld, whom I once defended against a rather vicious internet campaign against him. At least that was what it felt like, before closer inspection.
In the end I realized that maybe his: No thank you, Israel can help herself, may well have triggered the huge wave of anger.
Can help herself? Could it, tiny as it is, ever continue in its “UNRESTRAINED” ways – to modify another expression above, that catches my attention – survive without the support of the “benevolent hegemon”, who we are told only wants to bring freedom and democracy to the Middle East?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-1185632-8904627?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Martin%20van%20Creveld
Dear John,
as I shouldn’t be here – so many urgent matters – I haven’t been over at your blog: The Towers of Yorke for quite some time now.
http://yorketowers.blogspot.com/2007/04/can-it-really-be-beyond-compass-of.html
And yes, I know your design fits perfectly well into Richards perspective, or mine for that matter.
I simply had to react to what felt like utter hybris. You may realize that my reactions on a sentence like: “Geez, never will happen.” must necessarily be strong. As my reactions on the many repetitive occurrences of the word: RESTRAINT, as the main obstacle in the “Benevolent Hegemon’s” war against terror is. Who is bringing democracy to the ME.
Don’t these people realize, how dangerous the larger scenario with the Hegemon securing it’s future resources and Israel delivering the mental software for the useful bias, the useful resentment of the Islamic world, who sits on 2/3 of the world’s oil is?
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/4/6376
Flava, I felt exactly like you and noticed to my utter shame that it might be more easy to judge, if you are not the target and Richard for many reasons must be. I just tried to forward a longer note but got caught in the Spam-automation or defense shields of Richard’s software. Not that it matters much.
First of all thank you for the compliment. Of course many more Israelis and Palestians have been killed after peace negotiations such as the Oslo accords or the failed Camp David talks. Now, I am more interested in Israeli casualties than Palestinian ones as I see the role of the Israeli government and the IDF to protect Israelis even if it is at the expense of Palestinians (providing that it is Palestinians providing the threat. I don’t think Israel should bomb Palestinians in order to send a message to Asad for example). “Summer rain” ended 10 months ago. It would be interesting to see how many Israeli casualties there were in the 10 months following Summer Rain and the 10 months following Oslo or Camp David.
Here is an example – Oslo II signed Sept 28 1995. By March 4 1996 over 60 Israelis dead in a series of suicide attacks.
CampDavid Summit July 2000, Taba talks Jan 2001. By Oct 2001: Dolphinarium massacre, Sbarro massacre, Lynchings in Ramallah, Hadera car bomb attack, Minister of tourism assasinated.
So who’s the one not learning from mistakes.
[Just as an aside, I am in favor of a negotiated settlement]
LeaNder,
Thanks for the link – a very good site.
Do I see where you’re going on this? Correct me if I’m wrong, LeaNder, but are you hoping for a more measured response in all these matters? Traditionally, in the gravest of situations, mankind has resorted to violence as its only way out. Humanity may indeed have within itself this admirable capacity for restraint but its primitive instincts in desperate moments can still dominate; those inbuilt tendencies towards ‘fight or flight,’ more often than not, carry the day. Extreme measures are the ones most likely to be adopted in extreme times; they do seem to surface when other options appear unable to stem the tide.
Still, refraining from the more extreme forms of conflict and passive resistance have had their victories in the past although these have been few and far between. Certainly the moral case for these is much easier to establish. But, perhaps, only in a more perfect world could such a course of action come anywhere near fruition.
I don’t think the arguments on this topic re IDF et al. help all that much. They may be quite valid in their own way but , guys, for all the good it’s doing, you might be better employed working out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Broadly speaking, your core arguments seem to be these.
Cet animal est tres mechant; With the blind leading the blind, we Quand on l’attaque il se defend. shouldn’t be too surprised if both
fall into the ditch.
Somewhere between the span of these two viewpoints there may exist a compromise strong enough to accomodate both. If there isn’t, then this discussion will never be at an end. Perhaps you get to continue it in the hereafter – although by then, I suspect, there won’t be much point.
I really think we are expected to have worked out these things long before then.
PS. The ‘core arguments’ section above didn’t come out quite as drafted. The french and the english components seem to have blended into each other. An unlikely event for so polarised a pair of viewpoints.
Please therefore imagine them as separted by a central margin – might make much more sense that way.
Yes, that seems to be the refrain of almost everyone here who takes me to task for my views. “I really am liberal. I really do oppose the Occupation. I really am in favor of a Palestinian state.” Just not now. You see, there’s no partner,” etc., etc.
I have one question for you: if you’re in favor of it when do you propose this magical moment happen? And why not now? Because if you’re not telling your PM that now’s the time then you might as well stop telling me how reasonable a person you are. I’m only interested in someone who’s willing to put up or shut up on this question right now.
I have never claimed to be a liberal (on these issues), against the “occupation” or in favor of (another) Palestinian state. As has been demonstrated, negotiations with Palestinians has led to catastrophic results, much worse than military operations against them. In spite of this I am not completely pessimistic so that I will not oppose a peace process with Abbas at this time.