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	<title>Comments on: Alexander Joffe Denies Conflict of Interest in Reviewing Abu El-Haj Book</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DC-DOC</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39812</link>
		<dc:creator>DC-DOC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 22:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39812</guid>
		<description>Richard, I see that you continue to host Joachim Martillo as a "guest" in your "living room," the both of you railing together against the David Project.  Eenjoy the antisemite's company there in your "living room;" I prefer the company of philosemites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, I see that you continue to host Joachim Martillo as a &#8220;guest&#8221; in your &#8220;living room,&#8221; the both of you railing together against the David Project.  Eenjoy the antisemite&#8217;s company there in your &#8220;living room;&#8221; I prefer the company of philosemites.</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39769</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39769</guid>
		<description>There are several different meanings of "degenerate" beyond simply a vacuous epithet to throw at despised people or political movements.

The root meaning, which we find in extermist German nationalist tracts and in German Zionist social critics like Max Nordau, who wrote &lt;i&gt;Entartung/Degeneracy&lt;/i&gt;, is "removal from one's kind" with an implication of inauthenticity.

The other meaning relates to the development moral corruption and turpitude.  Several social historians have described tendencies of Germans to develop negative beliefs about Jews in order to justify &lt;i&gt;ex post facto&lt;/i&gt; the mistreatment that Jews received from the Nazi German government. 

Not only do David Project productions evince a desperate quest to find more and more justification after the fact for Israeli brutality towards Palestinians, but the intrinsic evil of Arabs and Muslims as identified and elaborated by the David Project has increased steadily with each passing year.

It is a very good example of the 2nd form of degeneracy, but I have rarely attributed degeneracy to the DP because for the most part "degeneracy" has been drained of meaning in common political discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are several different meanings of &#8220;degenerate&#8221; beyond simply a vacuous epithet to throw at despised people or political movements.</p>
<p>The root meaning, which we find in extermist German nationalist tracts and in German Zionist social critics like Max Nordau, who wrote <i>Entartung/Degeneracy</i>, is &#8220;removal from one&#8217;s kind&#8221; with an implication of inauthenticity.</p>
<p>The other meaning relates to the development moral corruption and turpitude.  Several social historians have described tendencies of Germans to develop negative beliefs about Jews in order to justify <i>ex post facto</i> the mistreatment that Jews received from the Nazi German government. </p>
<p>Not only do David Project productions evince a desperate quest to find more and more justification after the fact for Israeli brutality towards Palestinians, but the intrinsic evil of Arabs and Muslims as identified and elaborated by the David Project has increased steadily with each passing year.</p>
<p>It is a very good example of the 2nd form of degeneracy, but I have rarely attributed degeneracy to the DP because for the most part &#8220;degeneracy&#8221; has been drained of meaning in common political discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39681</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39681</guid>
		<description>I'm not going to argue about thoe weapon systems. I don't know if you've ever met a weapon you liked. It's not relevant to the petition signed by Abu el-Haj since they are talking about a complete divestment of all military sales and aid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to argue about thoe weapon systems. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever met a weapon you liked. It&#8217;s not relevant to the petition signed by Abu el-Haj since they are talking about a complete divestment of all military sales and aid.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39677</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 07:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39677</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;this petition reveals an anti-Israel bias.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel cluster bombs used in their hundreds of thousands against Lebanese civilian &#038; probably in contravention of U.S. agreements with Israel.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel its most dangerous weapons such as DIME &#038; others which have never been tested in battlefield conditions before &#038; whose lethality is beyond many conventional munitions.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel weapons which Israel uses in ways that contravene international laws of war.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing weapons to Israel which incinerate Palestinian organs from within the body in horrifying and excruciating ways.  I have written about ea. of these subjects here.  If you need links you can search the blog or ask &#038; I'll provide them.

Does that make me anti-Israel?  If it does in yr book then we simply will never agree on what constitutes being anti-Israel.

And btw, I'm not in favor of most U.S. arms sales including those to Arab countries &#038; I've written that here in this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>this petition reveals an anti-Israel bias.</p></blockquote>
<p>I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel cluster bombs used in their hundreds of thousands against Lebanese civilian &#038; probably in contravention of U.S. agreements with Israel.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel its most dangerous weapons such as DIME &#038; others which have never been tested in battlefield conditions before &#038; whose lethality is beyond many conventional munitions.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing Israel weapons which Israel uses in ways that contravene international laws of war.  I am opposed to the U.S. providing weapons to Israel which incinerate Palestinian organs from within the body in horrifying and excruciating ways.  I have written about ea. of these subjects here.  If you need links you can search the blog or ask &#038; I&#8217;ll provide them.</p>
<p>Does that make me anti-Israel?  If it does in yr book then we simply will never agree on what constitutes being anti-Israel.</p>
<p>And btw, I&#8217;m not in favor of most U.S. arms sales including those to Arab countries &#038; I&#8217;ve written that here in this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: amir</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39667</link>
		<dc:creator>amir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 07:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39667</guid>
		<description>I am in favor of a reduction or cut in US aid to Israel if it is done in a cooperative manner and aid is reduced to Israel's enemies and potential enemies as well. But your comment about her petition being "pro-Israel" is extremely cynical. Just for the record the petition calls: "...to encourage the United States government to suspend its military aid and arms &lt;b&gt;sales to Israel, and (2) to divest from all companies that manufacture arms and other military hardware &lt;b&gt;sold&lt;/b&gt; to Israel, as well from companies that &lt;b&gt;sell&lt;/b&gt; such arms and military hardware to Israel...". emphasis added. So, even though you nearly convinced me that this was a pro-Israel petition calling for greater independance for the Jewish state (sarcasm) a careful reading of the petition has convinced me that signing this petition reveals an anti-Israel bias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in favor of a reduction or cut in US aid to Israel if it is done in a cooperative manner and aid is reduced to Israel&#8217;s enemies and potential enemies as well. But your comment about her petition being &#8220;pro-Israel&#8221; is extremely cynical. Just for the record the petition calls: &#8220;&#8230;to encourage the United States government to suspend its military aid and arms <b>sales to Israel, and (2) to divest from all companies that manufacture arms and other military hardware </b><b>sold</b> to Israel, as well from companies that <b>sell</b> such arms and military hardware to Israel&#8230;&#8221;. emphasis added. So, even though you nearly convinced me that this was a pro-Israel petition calling for greater independance for the Jewish state (sarcasm) a careful reading of the petition has convinced me that signing this petition reveals an anti-Israel bias.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39645</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39645</guid>
		<description>Andy: Yr perspective on this &#038; yr supportive comment means a lot to me.  ANd thanks for reminding me how to spell too.

About the issue of U.S. arms sales, there are even ardent right wing Israelis who'd like to see Israel completely self-sufficient for nationalist reasons.  So while it's true that her signature reflects a critical stance toward the Israeli military complex, I wouldn't say it reflect an anti-Zionist position at all.  I'd probably be willing to sign such a petition myself.  Some of the new U.S. weapons systems which Israel is using &#038; which I've written about here including DIME) are incredibly &#038; scarily destructive of human life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy: Yr perspective on this &#038; yr supportive comment means a lot to me.  ANd thanks for reminding me how to spell too.</p>
<p>About the issue of U.S. arms sales, there are even ardent right wing Israelis who&#8217;d like to see Israel completely self-sufficient for nationalist reasons.  So while it&#8217;s true that her signature reflects a critical stance toward the Israeli military complex, I wouldn&#8217;t say it reflect an anti-Zionist position at all.  I&#8217;d probably be willing to sign such a petition myself.  Some of the new U.S. weapons systems which Israel is using &#038; which I&#8217;ve written about here including DIME) are incredibly &#038; scarily destructive of human life.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39644</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39644</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“degenerate Arab-hater” is not an inaccurate description of anyone that would work for Jacobs and the David Project.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Norman Levitt used the term "degenerate left" in one of his diatrbes against Abu El Haj here &#038; I responded by telling him how uncomfortable I was with bringing such red flag terms into a political debate.  I agree with you completely that Jacobs and everything he touches is treif &#038; slimy.  But to call him or David Project degenerate?  I don't know where that gets you that you couldn't get by arguing facts &#038; issues.  In fact, the Kahanists who revile me at a number of their websites love to call me terms like "fag" and "kapo" which seems to me only a slightly more extreme form of calling someone degenerate.  I just don't much go for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“degenerate Arab-hater” is not an inaccurate description of anyone that would work for Jacobs and the David Project.</p></blockquote>
<p>Norman Levitt used the term &#8220;degenerate left&#8221; in one of his diatrbes against Abu El Haj here &#038; I responded by telling him how uncomfortable I was with bringing such red flag terms into a political debate.  I agree with you completely that Jacobs and everything he touches is treif &#038; slimy.  But to call him or David Project degenerate?  I don&#8217;t know where that gets you that you couldn&#8217;t get by arguing facts &#038; issues.  In fact, the Kahanists who revile me at a number of their websites love to call me terms like &#8220;fag&#8221; and &#8220;kapo&#8221; which seems to me only a slightly more extreme form of calling someone degenerate.  I just don&#8217;t much go for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39557</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39557</guid>
		<description>I have to hand it to you, Richard - you have way more patience that I would have had in slogging through all of this.  However, I fully agree that if Joachim has relevant things to say, and is civil, then he should be allowed to comment here, and that what he has written elsewhere is irrelevant.  And I would have cut DC-DOC off when he dragged Joachim's wife into the discussion, which was totally uncalled for.

I have my own rejoinder to something Amir said in the very first comment:

"She might want to mention that her name appears on a petition calling for an end of military and arms sales by the US government to Israel so that readers of her work will understand that her conclusions are clouded by a preformed political outlook hostile to the state of Israel."

More than a few people, including some Israelis, hold that it would do Israel a world of good to cut the umbilical cord and learn how to not be dependent on American aid - to put it another way, only in the world of Orwell's '1984' does dependency equal strength.  One could straightforwardly argue that signing such a petition reflects a PRO-Israel outlook.

One last minor point:

"The fact that he was working for Campus Watch WHEN it was first published doesn't phase him in the least."

The correct spelling is "faze", not "phase".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to hand it to you, Richard - you have way more patience that I would have had in slogging through all of this.  However, I fully agree that if Joachim has relevant things to say, and is civil, then he should be allowed to comment here, and that what he has written elsewhere is irrelevant.  And I would have cut DC-DOC off when he dragged Joachim&#8217;s wife into the discussion, which was totally uncalled for.</p>
<p>I have my own rejoinder to something Amir said in the very first comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;She might want to mention that her name appears on a petition calling for an end of military and arms sales by the US government to Israel so that readers of her work will understand that her conclusions are clouded by a preformed political outlook hostile to the state of Israel.&#8221;</p>
<p>More than a few people, including some Israelis, hold that it would do Israel a world of good to cut the umbilical cord and learn how to not be dependent on American aid - to put it another way, only in the world of Orwell&#8217;s &#8216;1984&#8242; does dependency equal strength.  One could straightforwardly argue that signing such a petition reflects a PRO-Israel outlook.</p>
<p>One last minor point:</p>
<p>&#8220;The fact that he was working for Campus Watch WHEN it was first published doesn&#8217;t phase him in the least.&#8221;</p>
<p>The correct spelling is &#8220;faze&#8221;, not &#8220;phase&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim Martillo</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39512</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim Martillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39512</guid>
		<description>For Zhu Bajie (in the USA we swim in a poisoned sea)

I have taken David Project Israel advocacy sessions, and I did a lot of research on Charles Jacobs, the David Project, and the AASG during the conflict over the Roxbury Mosque. It is not the type of language that I normally use, but "degenerate Arab-hater" is not an inaccurate description of anyone that would work for Jacobs and the David Project.

Take a look at my web site and search for "Roxbury Mosque," "Charles Jacobs," and "David Project."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Zhu Bajie (in the USA we swim in a poisoned sea)</p>
<p>I have taken David Project Israel advocacy sessions, and I did a lot of research on Charles Jacobs, the David Project, and the AASG during the conflict over the Roxbury Mosque. It is not the type of language that I normally use, but &#8220;degenerate Arab-hater&#8221; is not an inaccurate description of anyone that would work for Jacobs and the David Project.</p>
<p>Take a look at my web site and search for &#8220;Roxbury Mosque,&#8221; &#8220;Charles Jacobs,&#8221; and &#8220;David Project.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Scott MacEachern</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39411</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott MacEachern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/30/alexander-joffe-denies-political-conflict-of-interest-in-archaeology-review/#comment-39411</guid>
		<description>amir: Actually, if you look at the Campus Watch web site, the 'problems' it focuses on are by its own lights that Middle Eastern Studies in America is not sufficiently pro-Israeli and pro-American. All of the issues that you mention flow out of that: there's no suggestion that, for example, intolerance of the views of people like Nadia Abu El-Haj could even potentially be an issue. If Dr. Joffe as an archaeologist _hadn't_ been a priori biased against the work of Dr. Abu El-Haj, he would never, ever, ever have been hired as the Director of Campus Watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amir: Actually, if you look at the Campus Watch web site, the &#8216;problems&#8217; it focuses on are by its own lights that Middle Eastern Studies in America is not sufficiently pro-Israeli and pro-American. All of the issues that you mention flow out of that: there&#8217;s no suggestion that, for example, intolerance of the views of people like Nadia Abu El-Haj could even potentially be an issue. If Dr. Joffe as an archaeologist _hadn&#8217;t_ been a priori biased against the work of Dr. Abu El-Haj, he would never, ever, ever have been hired as the Director of Campus Watch.</p>
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