being called a Christkiller is an anti-Semitic comment.

Do please show me where Ateek calls Jews or Israelis “Christ-killers” using those precise terms. Then you can get away with that kind of overwrought propaganda here.

It sounds like the person who edited that portion of the Wikipedia article was anti-Palestinian. Would it surprise you that this could be so?

This is an example of two religious traditions locked in their own pre-conceived notions of their own past history & suffering and talking past ea. other. Palestinian Christians naturally use the religious imagery of their tradition to speak of their nation’s suffering. Israelis and Jews naturally parse every Palestinian utterance in light of their past suffering. Personally, I know quite a bit about Jewish theology & I have no problem at all with the passages quoted from SABEEL here. I do not at all hear the murderous hatred of Israelis that you & CAMERA claim to hear. Too many Jews are so paralyzed by their past that they continue to hear echoes of past injustice in current political/religious debate.

The fact of the matter is that the Occupation is ugly, unjust and causes immense suffering. Babies ARE killed. That doesn’t mean that Israel deserves to be seen as a nation “that stands in the way of human salvation.” But I certainly don’t begrudge SABEEL attemting to interpret their suffering in light of their religious tradition.

It may be possible there are other utterances by SABEEL that may say something diff. which I might find more offensive. But what you’ve presented is entirely unconvincing as anti-Semitic rhetoric.

I don’t understand what you hope to accomplish with your posts here. I would basically say the same thing to a right wing Israeli. As I understand it, Richard’s purpose is to expose injustice and malfaisance in Israel and to work for a peaceful solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Scoring poits for an exclusive victory, which will never happen, seem off topic and quite frankly, boring.

There are serious problems with both peoples and with US and UK attempts at mediation. I am hoping for suggestions on how to make things better for everyone, not for one side to triumph over the other. For example, I am not interested in whether or not the Israeli state fits some preconceived definition of “apartheit.” That feels like a cat chasing its tail and never catching it. I am interested in the problems of economic disparity between the two peoples and ways to lessen it.

According to CAMERA, Dexter Van Zile, a member of the United Church of Christ, has condemned Ateek for implying that “…Israel is a baby- and Christ-killing nation that stands in the way of humanity’s salvation. Given the role this imagery has played in promoting violence against Jews, and its use in reference to the Jewish state is inexcusable.”[10]

Van Zile bases these accusations on statements excerpted from Ateek’s 2001 Easter message, such as, “in this season of Lent, it seems to many of us that Jesus is on the cross again with thousands of crucified Palestinians around Him …The Israeli government crucifixion system is operating daily,” [11]. Similarly, in a February 2001 sermon, Ateek likened the occupation to the “stone placed on the entrance of Jesus’ tomb. … This boulder has shut in the Palestinians within and built structures of domination to keep them in. We have a name for this boulder. It is called the occupation.” [11] Sabeel’s comparisons of Palestinians to the crucified Jesus and Israel to his murderers is also rejected by the ADL as as an “ugly and false deicide charge against all the Jewish people - a concept rejected by prominent historians and repudiated by the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian denominations.” [12]

there is enough ambiguity in Tutu’s views to support Amin’s hypothesis as well as yours

Melvin: I’m tired of yr quoting smear sources to tarnish the reputations of progressives. I’ve asked you a number of times to provide a link whenever you quote an external source here. Unless & until you do, your comment will simply not be credible. I’m not going to accept yr word for it that Tutu is a “patron” of SABEEL. And I’m not going to accept yr word for it that SABEEL is inimical to Judaism or Israel. SABEEL is a respected Palestinian NGO. If you want to say otherwise you’ll have to do a lot better than this.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Arab_Revolt.htm

The name Nusseibeh is also mentioned there. Anwar Nusseibeh was a judge and later, a Minister of Defense in Amman.

How is Amin related to Anwar Nusseibeh?

“Replacement Theology—the belief that the Christian Church replaced Israel in God’s plan—has found a new home in the work of the Sabeel Center—the Jerusalem-based ecumenical organization for Palestinian Christians. After experiencing decades of decline and total rejection by many denominations, Replacement Theology has resurfaced in the form of Palestinian Liberation Theology (PLT)—a theological movement pushed by Sabeel. PLT rejects the eternalness of God’s promises to the Jewish people based on a dangerous manipulation of scripture. PLT’s goal is to radically reinterpret the Bible to make it more relevant to Palestinians and less partial to Jews.”

There is some movement on the ground, Israelis and Palestinians are getting more and more reasonable.

The lines are moving. People are getting more tolerant with each other. I spoke to my Palestinian friends in East Jerusalem, and all are scared, but also ready for compromise. Israelis have little opportunity to hear those voices.

Amin, you scare us, you scare the Israelis, and many other civilized people with your unbending views.

Imagine that we are all human beings. Let us stop being enemies. You live in England. Is it such a bad place?

Would you go back to live in Jerusalem? I have forgo it, are you an economist or historian?

Nobody talks about moving masses of people, anymore. Everybody should stay where they are, and a massive rehabilitation is needed locally.

Amin, the first big step would be to distance yourself from the Arab and Iranian tyrants. The case of Palestine will be always weak if the allies are such criminals. Former allies were the Fascist Germans and the totalitarian Soviets. With friends like these, the Palestinians have failed time and time again.

Palestinians should raise their voice in support of all Arab and Iranian people who live in a worse oppression than Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza can imagine,

Amin, the Palestinian misery had its origin in the concept that you blame incorrectly on Israel today. The original sin of the Palestinians was the blanket rejection of the returning fellow cousins. The extended tragedy was the alliance with Wahhabism, and other Muslim extremisms. The Christian Palestinians were not asked of their opinion. They did not plot with Christian nations against the immigration of the Jews. Some made a mistake in choosing alliances with the Soviets, and Baathists.

So if you can clean up these fundamental problems, perhaps a fair compromise is possible.

The big remaining problem is the illogical US posturing. Looking at home, there is a problem with the Jesus worship, and an attack on progressive ideas, from Darwinism to the crazy emphasis on medieval abortion antagonism.

Should the USA march to rigid sectarianism - Christinaity, we will have antisemitism here, and a permanent battle with Islam, while Israel and the Palestinians will continue bleeding.

Too long, and it is difficult to pull the bloggers into the progressive camp.

Become secular and the world will be a hospitable place for all of us.