Comments on: Clinton Panders to AIPAC, Obama Tells It Like It Is

By: Dameocrat

Dameocrat — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:51:21 +0000

Marc C I don't get your position. You seem to contradict yourself. You said.

Your assertion that AIPACers are against peace because they don’t want to give up the settlements is a gross falsehood and one that is unfortunately shared by most of your compatriots on the left, Jews and non-Jews.

Then in the next paragraph you said:

I am an American/Israeli who lives in Israel (and an AIPAC member), and like many I was in favor of the Oslo accords and voted for Rabin and afterwards Peres.

Since the Oslo accords were about dismantling the settlements, and AIPAC by your own admission supports the settlements, why would you support Oslo or vote for Rabin? That makes no sense. Since I believe is not possible without dismantling the settlements, in my view aipac is an obstacle to peace, not to mention justice.

By: samuel burke

samuel burke — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:34:13 +0000

This is the best that AIPAC & its supporters has to offer in the way of argument.

it was my way of say what you said richard.

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:14:03 +0000

MarkC, you make a very strong defense of your position and you have exposed the fallacies in Dans assertions.

Say what? Unless you mean this ironically (which it doesn’t seem you do), you’ve completely undercut every single previous comment you’ve published at this blog. You say you’re an opponent of AIPAC & MarcC is an ardent supporter. I’m confused…

By: Richard Silverstein

Richard Silverstein — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:05:55 +0000

I can see that you’re an idiot.

This is the best that AIPAC & its supporters has to offer in the way of argument.

By: samuel burke

samuel burke — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:32:10 +0000

MarkC, you make a very strong defense of your position and you have exposed the fallacies in Dans assertions. The truth is disarming and usually causes the fallacies that come under its scrutiny to resort to other tactics which allow it to continnue its charade.

yeah that.

By: MarkC

MarkC — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:54:56 +0000

Never mind. I can see that you’re an idiot.

By: Dan Sniderman

Dan Sniderman — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:30:07 +0000

There is a very serious problem right now that the United States – under the Bush/Cheney neo-con foreign policy is currently viewed as having given up any sort of pretence of having ANY sort of independence in brokering the Isreali-Palestinian conflict as opposed to being 100 percent supporter of Israel.

As an American citizen who happens to both be Jewish and a Progressive, I have trouble believing, despite any protests to any sort of nuanced policy – that AIPAC is anything short of a 100-percent supporter of the Neo-con AND REPUBLICAN ideology. Sure they may support some Democratic candidates – but those will always be in States/Districts where a Republican has no chance to ever be elected (New York City, Chicago, and so on).

I’m sure there are rank-and-file supporters of AIPAC (like MarkC perhaps) who feel otherwise, but the people pulling the strings in that organization will ALWAYS ultimately undermine Democratic policy.

Furthermore – it seems to me most American Jews (at least the ones I am in contact with) are EXTREMELY ignorant of the political debate that goes on WITHIN Israel. They may have some ideas of who the players are (Olmert, Peretz, Netanyahu and so on) – but I doubt they truly understand it. It is equally clear to ME that AIPAC, as they are aligned with the right-wing neo-cons in this country – are equally aligned with the most right-wing political element in Israel.

I can’t believe there is any Democrat who seriously wants a war with Iran, particularly an attack by the US with nuclear weapons. But there is no doubt in my mind that this is exactly what the neo-cons – (and the extreme right in Israel) are after…

By: samuel burke

samuel burke — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:28:22 +0000

That article is a great description of the way the two candidates are maneuvering their individual way through the minefield of financial support. I would like to see edwards announce that he had made the mistake of pandering to this lobby because of their financial and political power, he ought to go and yell it from the mountaintops, he will wish later that he had done that, he ought to reframe the debate and make it about the powers that led us into war, he stands no chance of competing otherwise. i believe that if he takes that stand he would attract disenchanted voters and at the same time emasculate aipac of the furtive power they wield by making their agenda known to the mainstream american voter who is oblivious to this very pertinent fact. As you can tell i dislike the way aipac operates and the way they have been able to maintain their position as the elephant in the room for as long as they have. i realize this is all wishful thinking on my part.

one day soon i hope they are made to register as the agent of a foreign government.