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Masada2000 Webhost Takes Site Down

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51 Responses to “Masada2000 Webhost Takes Site Down”

Fuckkapos reagheadkiller says:

March 13, 2007 at 12:08 PM

Eat shit you fucking cunt!!!!! Masada 2000 rules. You suck Islamic cocks. You are a pice of shit and a prick. Die motherfucker. You pric and slut and whore. I spit on you

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- Scott says:
  
  September 29, 2009 at 8:00 PM
  
  My my, FR, you seem to be having a bad day. Please remember to take your meds, OK. Cheers.
  
  Reply
Richard Silverstein says:

March 13, 2007 at 1:00 PM

I guess the Kahanists are “onto” me. I’m of two minds on whether or not to allow the above comment to be displayed at this site. Part of me believes that it should remain to show everyone the vile hate-spewing of which these twisted souls are capable.

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- Trance Gemini says:
  
  September 25, 2009 at 4:19 AM
  
  We all owe you a debt of gratitude Richard.
  
  Eliminating hate no matter where it comes from honors those millions who died in the Holocaust as victims of hate.
  
  Religious extremism, whether it’s Jewish, Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, etc., uses hate to further it’s aims.
  
  To provide a hit list of people is an incitement to violence and harassment founded in hate and I believe would be illegal in any country, including the US with it’s strong constitutionally protected free speech rights.
  
  I enjoy your web site and while I don’t agree with all of your assessments I do believe that you are honest.
  
  Thank you, and keep up the great work.
  
  Know that you are appreciated and respected.
  
  Reply
Dean Edward says:

March 20, 2007 at 5:01 PM

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
-Noam Chomsky

By censoring masada2000, it’s opponents have denied the very principles of free speech and expression that are the foundation of a democratic society.

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- Trance Gemini says:
  
  September 25, 2009 at 4:21 AM
  
  It’s illegal to incite violence against people you don’t agree with.
  
  Starting a “hit list” of enemies amounts to inciting such violence and harassment.
  
  That is one of the limitations of constitutionally protected free speech.
  
  You can’t yell “Fire” in a movie theater.
  
  Reply
Richard Silverstein says:

March 20, 2007 at 7:00 PM

Now isn’t that convenient. You drag out Noam Chomsky to try to make me feel as if I’ve violated some precept of left wing discourse.

First, you should bother to read the comment thread here. I didn’t censor anyone. I merely suggested that the webhost review the site’s content. The company decided the material violated their terms of service. If anyone violated their freedom of expression it was the webhost. THough how you can make the argument that a webhost doesn’t have the right to refuse service to someone using their servers is beyond me.

And just for the heck of it–do you have the right to say on your webhost that women you don’t like should be “reamed?” How would you feel if you wife or sister was the victim of such “discourse?”

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r says:

March 21, 2007 at 9:53 AM

Hi richard

I must say, I’m a bit disappointed massada2000 was taken down. It was a great site to point people to whenever the familiar diatribes regarding “those savage, hate-filled Arabs” came up. I had no objection to massada’s “SHIT LIST” which read something like a Who’s Who of important Jewish writers, poets, intellectuals, novelists, journalists, etc. The “List” revealed the virulently pro-Israel crowd for what they are..halfwits and thugs.

..just my opinion..

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 21, 2007 at 5:27 PM

r: Well, I’d rather have it available as a historical artifact through something like the Wayback Machine. However, if you really want it around it’s possible the owner will move it to a new host & open for business again. And besides, there are plenty of other hate-filled anti-Arab sites on line. Just take a look at Rachel Neuwirth’s Mideast Solutions or any of the Kahanist sites (JTF.org) which are still kicking around.

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Dean Edward says:

March 23, 2007 at 5:24 AM

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
-Noam Chomsky

I appreciate your reply, the problem is that you never addressed the actual quote that I posted. Do you agree with Noam Chomsky or not? This is really what is at the root of the conflict.

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John G says:

March 23, 2007 at 10:14 AM

Dear Mr (Dr.?) Silverstein,

I agree with the concept that nobody ever should be singled out for anti-gay or gender based (or ANY kind of) violence. If what you posted is the case, then these writers need to learn how to subliminate their anger and express their disagreement in ways that reflect an understanding and appreciation of the facts. Going with one’s rage and engaging in rampant name calling or prejudice towards others for who they are, without reason, just makes us regressed adolescents who, surly as we may feel, never learned that it’s not what you say, but how you say it. Everyone’s entitled to feel anger, rage, etc, but acting on it unabsahedly is an entirely different matter.
That being said, I have been very disappointed by the liberal Jewish community’s response vis-a-vis our support of Israel. We almost never draw attention to Muslim fanatacism and the danger that Muslim fanatacism and all religious fanatacism poses to Jews and all religious minorities everywhere (like the Bah’ai for instance). We seem to be entirely too comfortable attacking other Jews who stand up for Israel and with whom we disagree. There is nothing heroic about being a self-hating, indignant and poorly informed Jew. Having grown up in the atmosphere of liberal Judaism, I found myself in my young adult life being ‘pro-palestinian,’ and yet completely ignorant of the double bind that Israeli citizens and their leaders are forced to deal with on a daily basis. In my life, as I encountered increasing amounts of anti-Semitism , I became more informed about Jewish identity, the fact that Zionism is absolutely NOT racism as contended by some, and that Jewish freedom and Israeli existence are not, and probably never will be, independent variables.
On an important side note, I have an Italian Catholic last name and so would be privy to comments that were directed towards Jews in which the anti-Semitic speaker felt ‘safe’ because he/she was thought they were in apparently Christian/Muslim only company. ) This has happened to me in every social circle you can imagine from Christian to Jewish, heterosexual or gay, Black, Hispanic, female, male, etc.
At this point in my life when I see Jews wearing Kafiyas (sp?), I must admit I want to go up to them and ask them whether they realize that they are wearing a symbol of state-sponsored terrorism and that their intellectual ‘position,’ is most likely meaningless to the majority of people who belong to the culture behind the symbol they proudly wear. As a former liberal Jew myself, I imagine wanting to shake them from their self-righteous arrogance and ignorant equivocation of Zionism with American racism when the two ideas are completely different; the former created in the hopes of a life led beyond from the daily terror and random violence of The Pale, and the other based on keeping a group of individuals down (or worse) for profit and personal gain. Thank you

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 23, 2007 at 11:30 AM

Justice (both here in American & in other jurisdictions) determines that there are legal limits to freedom of expression. Do I have the right to yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater when there is none? No. Do the owners of Masada2000 have the right to advocate that women be raped? I don’t think so nor does Bsinet.

Do the owners of Masada2000 have the right to advocate views I despise? Do they have the right to advocate forced transfer of Arabs? Do they have the right to accuse Jews of being traitors and saying they should be tried for crimes against humanity? Yes, in fact Rachel Neuwirth does this at her site. I find her views odious but they do not advocate physically harming specific individuals as Masada2000 does. That’s the difference.

I am not a follower of Chomsky nor do I agree with everything–& perhaps even most of what–he says. I hope you’re not one of these tiresome people who thinks I’m a follower of Chomsky & that you’re going to “trip me up” by having me disagree with him & then point out the inconsistency.

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 23, 2007 at 12:04 PM

We almost never draw attention to Muslim fanaticism and the danger that Muslim fanatacism [sic] and all religious fanatacism poses to Jews and all religious minorities everywhere

I disagree with you, John, on several counts. First, liberal Jews are entirely aware of Muslim fanaticism. How can you miss it in this post-9//11 world. The difference betw. us is that you seem to posit an eternal enmity bet. Islam and Judaism & I don’t. Second, you seem to ignore the fact that there is deep Jewish fanaticism that poses a great danger to Arabs living in the Territories & within Israel itself.

There is nothing heroic about being a self-hating, indignant and poorly informed Jew.

If you are calling me or any other person commenting at this blog any of those ridiculous names then our conversation is concluded. I do not hate myself or Judaism. I am certainly better informed and educated than you or any of my critics about my Jewish tradition. And yes, I am indignant at the types of terms you use.

they are wearing a symbol of state-sponsored terrorism

Kaffiyehs “symbols of state-sponsored terrorism???” What are you on about? That’s a ridiculous piece of propaganda signifying nothing.

Zionism is absolutely NOT racism as contended by some, and that Jewish freedom and Israeli existence are not, and probably never will be, independent variables.

If Zionism can posit the existence of another people sharing the land and maintaining its own independent state alongside Israel, then it is not racist. But if your Zionism posits the subjugation of another people & permanent Occupation, then it is racist. My Zionism is not racist. Is yours?

Jewishness & Israel are NOT synonymous. They are related. But you make a mistake if you conflate them. We lived for over 1,000 years without our homeland and got along quite well thank you. I am happy there is a state of Israel. But my Jewish identity is not dependent on Israel for its existence. Is yours?

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Dean Edward says:

March 23, 2007 at 3:26 PM

I am beginning to see the modus operandi on this blog. Whenever anyone, either liberal or conservative, serves the purpose of propping up your particular view-point on a topic you
support them. When they do not, you reject them outright, and don’t seem willing or able to refute them in a meaningful way. I can accept the fact that you choose to label me as a tiresome person for posing a question that you cannot answer without appearing hypocritical. Thats your prerogative. I hope you can accept my observation that by the way you side step ditrect questions that demand thorough answers you seem to be a self serving myopic individual.
I commend you on at least allowing me to post here. Having said that,this will be my last posting; I don’t care to waste any more of our time beating a dead horse.

I will continue to support Israel and those particular Jewish people that have proven that they have the backbone and intelligence to recognize who their friends are and who the real enemies of the Jewish people are.

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 23, 2007 at 8:26 PM

this will be my last posting;

Shalom u’vracha.

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John G says:

March 24, 2007 at 8:52 AM

I must say I agree with Dean completely. I admit I would not have the stomach to run any blog that was controversial. You need a tough skin whose membrane never ruptures. I admit I’m not of that kind of mettle

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Aphra Behn says:

March 25, 2007 at 7:32 AM

My professional and personal life have been almost dystroyed by Masada2000.org.

What people do not realize is that the creators of the site do not check their facts and often post libel and defaming information — lies. The s.h.i.t list was not created to inform, but to defame, and there is a difference. This is not a free speech issue, and the site needed to come down. You cannot tell print lies about people and pass them off as fact — this is against the law. Masada2000.org would have, eventually, faced legal action.

As an American/ Israeli citizen and peace and coexistence activist, I stand by my work, and all the actions I have participated in, proudly. But Masada2000 decided it was ok to go beyond simply posting my activism work, and said that my children were born out of wedlock, along with a half a dozen other personal lies — These lies have really hurt my efforts to find work, be part of the Jewish community in my area, and even date!

I am sorry I cannot post my real name here, but I am afraid of more internet defamation. I just wanted to say thank you for whatever part you played in getting this filthy, racist site removed.

Todah Rabbah

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 25, 2007 at 1:27 PM

You cannot tell print lies about people and pass them off as fact — this is against the law.

You may be speaking about libel here which may be a diff. story. If one is a public figure then you certainly cannot knowingly state a lie about them in print. But if one is not a public figure I’m not sure this applies. One could argue that Masada2000 turned you into a public figure by featuring you on the SHIT list. It’s all very complicated I’m afraid.

At any rate, I’m sorry for the pain & injury you have suffered. This only reinforces to me the value of monitoring these sites both for content & potential violation of webhost TOS or even the law.

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oz says:

March 28, 2007 at 9:43 PM

umm freedom of speech? ever heard of that?

out of all the websites to complain about..
I was always so fascinated by how Jews are willing to take down their own.
Jews dont need enemies, you will destroy each other. Unfortunately

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Richard Silverstein says:

March 28, 2007 at 10:09 PM

umm freedom of speech? ever heard of that?

Asked & answered, my friend. I’ve already covered this subject above. It has nothing to do w. freedom of speech. Webhosts are perfectly entitled to determine their terms of service. You violate them & you’re toast. Masada2000 violated those TOS in spades & the host decided to take the site down. I only pointed out to them what their client was publishing.

you will destroy each other

Apparently you don’t see calling for the rape of Jewish women an attempt to “destroy” them. It’s only “poor Masada2000.” What about the 7,000 Jews defamed there? They have no rights or recourse, right?

If you’re Jewish, you’re pathetic & if you’re not go suck eggs.

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Deputy Chairman, B'nai Elim says:

March 29, 2007 at 7:44 AM

Richard,

It’s unfortunate that you would ‘rat’ on a website just because you don’t like what they have to say. I’m not going to cite BS from Noam Chumpsky to get my point across. I will however point to Voltaire who said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”. I personally don’t frequent Masada2000 but do believe their message targets the Muslims who loathe us and those self-haters who support them. It’s obvious that your sell-out cowardice position of the Islamic threat put you and others like you on their list. Instead of defending your position by using your freedom of expression and speech, you mute them. Why don’t you try to shut down Islamic hate sites? There are so many to choose from. Let me answer my own question to you, you’re afraid! Instead, you side with them and force yourself to believe Jews could make peace with them through dialogue and self hatred. The bully takes your lunch money and you not only give it to them, you dime out all your friends on the school yard who have lunch money and help the bully rip them off too.

You wrote “there are plenty of other hate-filled anti-Arab sites on line. Just take a look at Rachel Neuwirth’s Mideast Solutions or any of the Kahanist sites (JTF.org) which are still kicking around.”

Well, we are a Kahanist organization. The Rav is our inspiration and we know he was right. It’s public knowledge that the B’nai Elim and JTF, both Kahanist organizations, do not get along. But as much as we disagree on some issues, we will be the first to defend the JTF if someone like you attempts to mute them using your cyber-terrorist tactics. There is a post above where the writer uses a handle with foul language and threatens to spit on you. You allow that idiot to post but ‘rat’ out someone else and have their site shut down. I don’t understand that. As far as the B’nai Elim goes, we’re out to take the bully’s wallet.

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Richard Silverstein says:

April 3, 2007 at 10:21 PM

I will however point to Voltaire who said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

I’m not Voltaire, & even Voltaire may never have seen the likes of Masada2000. Further, the day when my site is under attack and threatened with removal & YOU come to my defense would be the day I’d consider doing the same on behalf of Masada2000.

Why don’t you try to shut down Islamic hate sites?

The problem w. opening yr mouth before you know what you’re talking about is that you’re often shown to be a fool. One of the commenters on one of my many posts about Kahanists over the past few months asked for help in taking down Radio Islam, which I fully agree w. him was a despicable site. I offered what suggestions I could to help him in his effort. What do you say now?

The bully takes your lunch money

No Arab has ever taken my “lunch money” whatever that is supposed to mean. I’d be as afraid that you’d steal it as someone fr. Hamas would.

we will be the first to defend the JTF if someone like you attempts to mute them using your cyber-terrorist tactics

Another ludicrous statement showing you don’t bother to read people before you attack them. I made a pt. of saying that while JTF’s forum is unbelievably disgusting you can’t get people’s website shut down merely because they’re assholes (which the JTF forum members clearly are). So who’s trying to get their site taken down? And calling me a “cyber-terrorist” is rich indeed.

There is a post above where the writer uses a handle with foul language and threatens to spit on you.

I published but a single one of the most despicable of many commments about me which other Kahanists attemptted to publish here. That single comment was meant as an example so that my readers could see what type of beast I’ve roused. I’ve refused to publish another 20. I don’t believe in the freedom to spit on me here in this blog (though I have published yours & you’ve done quite a bit of spitting). I do believe in allowing idiots to show their idiocy and their true colors.

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Deputy Chairman, B'nai Elim says:

April 4, 2007 at 12:10 PM

Yes, we would come to your defense even if we completely disagree with you as we would defend Mr. foulmouth Chaim ben Pesach of JTF.

(You said) One of the commenters on one of my many posts about Kahanists over the past few months asked for help in taking down Radio Islam, which I fully agree w. him was a despicable site. I offered what suggestions I could to help him in his effort. What do you say?

Well Richard, I say offering suggestions isn’t the same as shutting it down. You didn’t suggest shutting down Massada2000, you did it.

(You said) No Arab has ever taken my “lunch money” whatever that is supposed to mean. I’d be as afraid that you’d steal it as someone fr. Hamas would.

I won’t take your lunch money. You’ll need it if Massada2000 tries to take you to court. Furthermore, stealing is a sin.

What makes me an idiot like you said in your post?
Do think you know me or my level of education?
Is it because I believe differently?
Or is it just because I think you would sell out your own people to make your enemies happy?

Ya’akov

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Richard Silverstein says:

April 4, 2007 at 7:45 PM

First, I didn’t say you were an idiot & don’t believe you are. In the comment you’re referring to, the “idiot” was the first commenter in this thread.

is it just because I think you would sell out your own people to make your enemies happy?

I think saying this of a fellow Jew is pretty despicable. I’m not “selling” anyone out Jew or Arab. Such terms are odious.

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omadeon says:

April 11, 2007 at 11:12 AM

Hi,

I was amazed to discover (by chance) that all this has… actually happened.

Some time ago, I felt appauled by some of the anti-Arab extremism in that Massada site, and even more appauled to find that… Woody Allen (among so many other famous progressive Jews) was included there as a “traitor of Israel”. I decided that the best policy to deal with their big problem was to send as polite letters of protest as possible. So… I actually sent them a decent humourous letter, protesting mildly against the black-listing of Woody Allen (etc). They responded politely, as a matter of fact! They even said they took my criticisms seriously and would try to remove Woody from their black list. A few days later, they wrote again, saying they wouldn’t in fact remove Woody, after all, from the black list, because he is a… pedophile (having married an extremely young lady, as we all know). Well, I concluded that these people must be a bit potty in the head, to say that; but more letters followed, this time polite propaganda letters about their site.

As a Greek, non-Jewish but definitely not anti-Jewish, I wrote them a letter on the basis that… they should not repeat Greek mistakes (fighting one another), and should not think wrongly (like some Greeks do) that Jewish people are a “divinely favoured people”. I did so with humour, politeness, and received their… praise for my articulate letter. This makes me wonder, if these people are in fact quite OK, not potty at all, but their minds have come to run the… wrong ideological software, apparently. They’ve been programmed to think in an extremist way.

I discovered the closing down of their site accidentally, during a web-search that followed a discussion in a Greek blog, where anti-racists (like me) tend to be quite numerous, fortunately. This does not mean we support the evils suffered by Palestinians. We are both against antisemitism AND against racism against the Palestinians. As regards the latter, if you remember, the Massada site was SO outrageously racist against Arabs and Palestinians that not even the worst antisemites would dare speak about Jews in such bad terms (literally talking about “Arab meat” and so on…)

Evidently, was is costly and it also leads nowhere. So (while not being sure about censorship being a good idea in this case) I congratulate you for your open-minded resistance against the extremist Massada site.

Shalom (from a non-Jew)
George

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omadeon says:

April 11, 2007 at 11:15 AM

Sorry, small typing mistake, My last paragraph should read “War is costly and it also leads nowhere”.

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omadeon says:

April 11, 2007 at 11:29 AM

Mr. Silverstein,

Having read what other people have been saying in your blog, and also having noticed the tragic situation of defamation practiced in a wide variety of other blogs, sites, etc…. Isn’t it ultimately inevitable that some kind of legal action must be taken against (at least serious) defamation in the Internet?

Surely this is THE problem of our time, as regards the Internet!

Why don’t we unite in our efforts to remove or mitigate this problem, more? We suffer it, you suffer it, everybody has come across it, in one way or another. How long will it go on? How can people not see your point?

My responses to your critics are simply, that because of the dreadful absence of any serious legal procedure etc. censorship by private web-hosting providers tends to become more powerful than state-censorship or other forms of legal action.

Do we want to live in a feudal society. where web-hosts become censors. or do we want an agreement and a constitution of rights for both free expression as well as the need to combat defamation?

These are open questions, Ya’akov. Serious questions. Global Questions.

Shalom again
George

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Richard Silverstein says:

April 11, 2007 at 2:48 PM

Thanks for yr comments, Omadeon. But know that I didn’t engage in censorship as I’ve noted above. Masada2000 had a webhost & they decided to take the site down. There are a thousand other options for this site if they truly want to spew their hate again.

I would like to have the money to pursue this abusive blogger vigorously. Unfortunately, I don’t have those means. That’s why I support blogger codes of civility being discussed at Wikipedia, the NY Times & elsewhere. That could help.

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Avraham David says:

April 16, 2007 at 8:50 AM

It is of no surprise that a Sabbatean such as Richard Silverstein should have a hand in shutting down a website which opposes his ultra-Left viewpoint.
Sadly, this is all too typical of those who share Mr. Silverstein’s radical agenda.
Goodbye, free speech. It was good to know ya!

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Deborah Fink says:

April 26, 2007 at 5:50 PM

Libel aside, Masada 2000 was indeed a great site for networking. I made lots of useful contacts from it and it even helped me raise money when I put on the World Premiere of the cantata for Rachel Corrie, ‘The Skies are Weeping’. Some Jewish peace activists who were not on there, felt put out!

But initially, I was concerned that the site might be dangerous for American Jews and myself, attempted to have it taken down, to no avail, so well done. I guess it’s ok for those of us in the UK where Zionists are less extreme. And fortunately, I no longer look like I did in the photo they used of me!

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Richard Silverstein says:

April 26, 2007 at 10:54 PM

Deborah: Yes, in that sense it was good for progressives. He even had people’s e mail addresses up there so you could easily find any other progressive you wanted to contact but whose e mail address you might not have been able to come by.

What you did in your fundraising was make lemons out of lemonade & for that I salute you. I’m doing the same. Steven Plaut & Rachel Neuwirth, who are bosom buddies with the Masada2000 owners, created a mock site in my name at Blogger which defames me, to get revenge on me for getting the site taken down. I’m using their fakery in order to publicize what they’ve done in the media including the NY Times, Seattle Post Intelligencer & Computerworld, all of whom have written about my experience.

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guess says:

May 6, 2007 at 1:09 PM

I trhink the closing of this site proves the fact that these radical Israelis are never going to win, and that the truth of Israels actions will be revealed.
As for Masada2000, i think that it deserves to be shut down, as it deliberately provoked racial and religious hatred towards the Palestinians and the Muslim world.

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John G says:

May 7, 2007 at 7:00 AM

This is in response to “Guess.” I think the polemics of whether of not Masada 2000 should be up and running, or conversely, without a server and shut down, have been thoroughly discussed here with a full range of viewpoints having been posted by the blogger.
HOWEVER (Guess), stating that (generally put) “the truth of Israel’s actions will be revealed” ignores the obvious facts that Israel also DEFENDS itself against the terrorism perpetrated (or tacitly supported) by many Islamic republics and Arab nations. In many, if not all of these countries, all of us with dissident opinions would be arrested, beaten, have family members threatened, or have our own lives extinguished for daring to pose an opinion or a question different from the theocratic powers-at-be.
Just look at the book, “Reading Lolita in Tehran,” women afraid for lives to read; behaving as members of resistance, moving from place to place to avoid possible death; their crime: reading a novel!! Some other recent examples: the three gay men beheaded in a celebration I believe on New Years 2005/6 in Saudi Arabia; the persecution of the Bahai and the RAMPANT joyful (I’ve seen photos) destruction of their holy sites in Iran, the trial and brutal treatment of innocent Iranian Jewish men on the charge of ‘conspiring with Zionists (one was 12 years old boy) who were denied basic civil liberties (e.g.: a lawyer, a visitor, oversight by a human rights organization from the international community) while waiting for a trial that didn’t commence for 18 months post-incarceration, the round up of gay men from an Egyptian gay bar/resort who were photographed against their will and humiliated for the entire Egyptian populace to see on the front pages of their newspaper; their crime, being gay….I don’t think I need to continue with other examples of the Arab’s world denying basic civil rights to the majority of their populace, never mind innocent civilians of neighboring nations, such as Israel.
I consider myself to be a moderate and open minded person not interesting in persecuting anyone, BUT the lack of leadership on the American Jewish Left in condemning these humanitarian offenses in contrast to the ‘gung ho’ radicalized leadership in support of (or rationalization of) militant Islamic terrorists does put merit in an earlier writer’s comments about how Jews are afraid: handing money over to the bully, not speaking up, and even worse ‘diming out their friends.’

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