We want to have lots of sympathy for the parents and child, yet none for the other passengers.

This is a delicate balancing act. You have to have sympathy for both sides. You have to try to show flexibility on both sides. Those who see things opposite from me in this thread have more than made clear the need to show sympathy for the other passengers. That’s why I think it’s important, since almost no one has done so, to present the ejected family’s pt. of view.

As I wrote before, I have MUCH experience not only traveling with my own three young children, but also observing other children on airplanes. No doubt there are times on airplanes when children may be truly out of control or parents are absolute boors in their behavior (as you aptly described). But I have to believe that even given the great stresses of traveling with children and the wild behavior that can sometimes entail, there are almost never circumstances when a child is actually ejected from a plane (this is the first I’ve heard of).

As a pilot, you want to believe that the child must’ve been a wild-eyed wildebeest who deserved ejection since you don’t want to think of your fellow flight crews as being hard-hearted uncaring individuals. As a parent, and I’d like to think a parent sensitive to the imposition my children pose for others, I’d like to think that the child needed a bit more understanding, time & sympathy to get things straightened out so the plane could take off. I have seen kind, caring airline staff who make all the difference when dealing with children flying in stressful situations. I’d prefer to believe that this Air Tran crew lacked some of that.

I don’t know which of us is right. And I should make clear that if I’d been on that plane with that family I might’ve agreed with yr view of things. I just don’t know how bad it was. Neither of us do.

I do want you to understand that I DO see things from the other passengers pt of view. After all, in addition to being a flying parent I too am a passenger. I too have to get to my destination on time. I too have a story.

Thanks again for taking the time to visit & let us hear your thoughts. A safe flight to you.

Actually it is 14 mins. Forward door need only be closed.

I have read more and my thoughts are this. We want to have lots of sympathy for the parents and child, yet none for the other passengers. There may have been returning troops trying to get home to their loved ones, People traveling to a funeral, people needing to get to work or meetings. Litterally hundreds of stories on this plane. We can not hold the airline accountable for a child’s ear surgery, can we? We can reasonably ask people to wait while a child acts poorly. Why as parents would we subject our daughter to more pain if we knew she had just had a problem? Why not go by train or bus?

Condeming the airline is just as one sided as condeming the parents.

Lets not blame the parents or child too much, because the child must have got to the destination somehow right? (probably by plane)
Lets resolve to be more considerate as parents of our children and those around us.

Realise too the plane needs to keep moving. It is sad but gone are the days of luxury air travel (unless you can afford it) the airline business model will not support it. I guess we get what we pay for.

Take Care
Brian

We can empathize all day but nothing would ever get accomplished. As an airline pilot our mantra is keep it moving. That airplane that crew and perhaps all the passengers all needed to keep moving. One delay can impact literally 1,000s of people. Airlines are not in the business of calming children. That is the parents job.

A large problem with our society is that no one wants to accept responsibility. I understand the parents needs and those of the child and can understand their frustration at the airline. People often take their frustrations out on the people trying to provide customer service as best they can. People off ten expect customer service people to make decisions far above their pay level. They are just doing their jobs. As humans and parents ourselves we have empathy, but we can not allow the system to come to a grinding halt. Our job is to keep the system moving. Yes airline crews have discretion on how to handle situations. Trust me when I tell you that after Sept 11, that pleasing customers is number one priority. We want to win you back. Tens of thousands of us lost our jobs in the shadow of Sept 11.
That said, we as an industry are held accountable for delays, missing baggage, ETC. No where does the public get to see that delay 14,000 was because we helped an old woman to her seat, or calmed a unruly child.

So my thoughts are this: Why should everyone (100 plus people) accept perhaps hours (1500 minutes/25 hours of wasted time) of inconvenience because the parents (regardless of cause could not control their child) How about 15 Min’s more time. What is an acceptable limit? 30 Min’s, 60, 90. Airlines routinely board up to 30 Min’s prior to departing the gate. They also make final calls 10 Min’s prior. This means the family had a min 25 minutes and up to 45Min’s to get it under control yet could not.

We have a real safety issue too. Airlines have a responsibility to get all people in their charge safely to their destination. So this becomes more of a issue. That child could have jumped out of it’s seat during takeoff and landing seriously injuring herself or other passengers. Since you like to suppose, what if there had been a real emergency how could that child have been evacuated if it s not following direction of her parents. There is a huge picture you need to look at.

If the parents had been classy, considerate people they would have left and waited patiently for the next flight after they had their child under control.

To give a personal example of how inconsiderate people can be: Last night on a flight a woman changed her infants diaper on a seat. She then threw the diaper on the isle telling the flight attendant she could pick it up at any time. The seat cushion had fecal matter all over it and had to be removed using a bio-hazard kit, and the seat cushion replaced. Does the customer get charge for the seat cushion? No we take it in our stride as part of customer service. Just because we work to serve you we deserve our dignity too.
Treat people with respect, especially those trying to serve you. Accept responsibility for you actions and those of your children.

Lastly lets keep it moving so we can all get home sooner to the ones we love.

The Federal Air Regulation (FAR) that is mentioned in the press is NOT WRONG!…the FAR states that the a/c door cannot be closed until all customers are seated with seatbelts fastened. People traveling with a lap child…pretty much know that means they should be holding their under 2 year old to comply with this request.

Pardon me, but I like things in plain English. If you’re holding a 2 yr old in yr lap then all passengers are seated but NOT all have their seatbelts fastened. Or are you saying that for the purposes of the regulation a 2 yr old isn’t considered a regular passenger? Or are you saying something else? I’m not saying this to be smart. It just doesn’t make sense for me.

I would have GLADLY made an exception and allowed Elly to sit in a parents’ lap if that would’ve calmed her — and get the flight underway! It seems unlikely that the child was even willing to do that!

Again, you’re showing yr reasonableness which I think is admirable. But you’re forgetting that the flight crew did NOT offer the mother the option of allowing Elly to sit in her hap. The attendant acc. to the article said the child had to sit in its own seat strapped in. We’ll never know whether a bit more flexibility might’ve made a difference in this situation since the mother wasn’t offered the opportunity you would’ve provided her.

It is not easy to remove someone from a flight

That no doubt is true & a good thing too. Otherwise, ejecting someone would be easier than it is & even more mistakes in judgment might be made. Further, just because it is difficult to remove someone fr. a plane doesn’t mean that mistakes aren’t made & people who perhaps should not be thrown off are.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m by no means arguing that no one should be thrown off planes. We both agree there are circumstances where this is entirely warranted. But what I am saying is that before a captain ejects someone fr. a flight he shouldn’t rely solely on the word of a single crew member. If possible, he should investigate the situation himself to determine whether such draconian treatment is warranted. I don’t know what the captain did in this circumstance, but in none of the 3 reports I’ve read does it say that the captain was involved directly.

this could have happened on ANY airline. This is a people thing rather than a company thing.

But you yourself have said that in all yr 20 yrs of flight experience you’ve never seen a child ejected fr. a flight. SO the truth of the matter is that AirTran has perhaps broken the mold here & done something which either few or perhaps no airline has ever done. So I think it’s a mistake to say that this could’ve happened on any airline. As far as we both know, it only happened on one.

You seem to be saying that ejection depends solely on the individual ejected & their behavior. One would like to think that. But there have been many instances in which people have been ejected fr. flights for behavior that offended a crew member or passenger, but which afterward were determined to have been overreactions. I refer you to the US Airways incident in which praying Muslim passengers were mistakenly taken to be Muslim terrorists & ejected. And the Freedom Air/Delta incident in which a flight attendant caused the ejection of a nursing mother. These were all recent incidents that might not have happened had more calm, reasonable, level-headed crews been working those days. So to a degree these incidents depend on the response of the airline crew as well as the behavior of the passenger.

you’ve directed just that at anyone who has criticized you or disagreed with your notion of the facts.

Here are hateful, angry, intolerant, mean-spirited words fr. comments published here by commenters including you. While one or two of the following were responding to my own comments most were written right off the bat, the first time the commenter had published anything here & they show some pretty nasty tendencies imho:

“bratty children”
“You’re stupid.”
“This Richard guy is a boor”
“…people like this family…Pathetic.”
“…this family…with their (uh-hmm) whining.”
“parents were…nearly as bratty as that of their child”
“these people are completely self-absorbed”
“two whiny parents”
“…parents…completely tone-deaf to anyone else”
“they’d worked themselves into such a self-righteous frenzy”
“You self righteous, hypocritical, egotistical, pompous jerk” [this comment & commenter was banned for violating my comment rules]

There’s one rule here. If you start out acting like a jerk here you’ll be treated like one in return. On the other hand, several commenters here, notably Sara disputed my view but did so with civility & were treated in kind by me. ‘As you sow so shall you reap.’

Of course you do – you’ve directed just that at anyone who has criticized you or disagreed with your notion of the facts.

I know personally, that I would have GLADLY made an exception and allowed Elly to sit in a parents’ lap if that would’ve calmed her — and get the flight underway! It seems unlikely that the child was even willing to do that!

The decision to remove someone from a flight –once they have boarded the a/c — is solely up to the Captain. Things like this are NOT snap judgements — ever. If I could REALLY get the point across guys!!!!!! It is not easy to remove someone from a flight!!! There is no way that this resulted in one lone crew member having a bad day! There is a chain of command that st This Captain will have a headache of paperwork and briefings etc. There was most likely a call made to the higher ups for advice.

And finally, this could have happened on ANY airline. This is a people thing rather than a company thing. This really had nothing to do with any company policy. This could’ve even happened at CO. IMHO, fly the airline that offers you the best fare and keep your fingers crossed!

Ya’ll be good now!