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Just curious, but do you think it’s okay for a child to be taken out of a carseat and comforted while (someone else is) driving? (obviously, in a car you can pull over). I find it difficult to make exceptions, even though the risk of injury is much lower on an airplane. When I have travelled with under-twos, though, I was required to hold them for take-off and landing and during turbulence. I am all for comforting children and meeting their needs, as you could see from my blog, but safety comes first in my book.
At any rate they needed to allow the parents time to calm and comfort their child before taking off. If he was still uncontrollably crying, I would support the airline for removing them.
You yourself acknowledge differences between a car and a plane. First, as you say you can pull over in a car and can’t in a plane. Second, a plane ride lasts a helluva lot longer than most car rides. Third, plane rides place children (& parents) under much greater stress & cause much greater tumult than a car ride.
Would my first priority be to have my child buckled up in a plane seat or at least in my lap on takeoff & landing? You bet. Do I try to do this whenever possible? Sure. Are you willing to confront 20 mins. or more of wailing fr. a baby who doesn’t understand why he/she must sit in a seat belted in? If so, you’re a stronger soul than I.
I’m glad though that we seem to agree that the parents’ should’ve been given the opportunity to calm the child before being so ignominiously thrown off.
Give me a break, it had nothing to do with the kid’s screaming; they do that all the time and don’t get kicked off of planes. It’s not “absurd” to make children sit securely in their seats during take off and landing – and do recall, your point about plane rides lasting longer is irrelevant, as the kid only has to be in her seat during take off and landing.
Unfortunately the media loves to jump on the “victim”s bandwagon in stories like this. If you read the reports, you would notice that the plane had already been delayed for 15 minutes. I would think that would be a generous amount of time to offer the parents to console the child…while making the other 100+ passengers wait, and throwing off the rest of the airline’s schedule for the day.
The only way I think this could have been handled differently was to allow the family the opportunity to get things under control to get on the next available flight… not make them wait 24 hours. We all know how strict FAA rules have become in recent years. The laws are pretty clear that passengers over 2 must be strapped in. Maybe the parents should have lied about her age, but too late for that now. The airline was only following regulations.
First, you don’t deserve a break & so won’t get one. Second, look at the airline rep’s own comment about the incident. First thing they mentioned was Elly was climbing under her seat, second that she was hitting her parents. Then finally they mention she refused to get in her seat. It’s clear fr. this order that the airline crew’s main concern was the child’s tantrum & unruly behavior & only secondarily that she refused to get in her seat.
Besides, if the goal truly was to get the child into her seat why, as the parents claim, didn’t they give them a few minutes to try to calm, soothe & get Elly into her seat?
Since you weren’t there, never spoke to either the parents or flight crew, or even the airline’s reps how could you possibly know that the incident “had nothing to do with” the child’s unruly behavior? Sounds like you’re makin’ it up as you go along.
You either don’t have children, have never had children, or had them so long ago you’ve forgotten what a real plane ride is like with a real infant. “The kid ONLY has to be in her seat during takeoff & landing?” That’s ONLY the most stressful part of the flight. The part where their ears feel enormous pressure which they don’t understand. The part in which they’re terrified about these physical changes to their environment. The part where they often scream bloody murder because you can’t explain what’s happening to them. It’s you who ought to give the rest of us a break, I’m afraid.
I linked to the news “reports” you referred to. Why would you presume I hadn’t read them? Of course I did. The problem is that neither of us was there. The parents WERE. They say they were not given time to console their child. While you claim the media jump on the victim’s bandwagon, you appear to have jumped on the airline’s bandwagon. I can see a possible scenario in which that 15 min. delay had nothing to do with the child itself but rather technical or passenger loading issues. The crucial time period is when the flight crew began asking passengers to buckle up. Perhaps it was from this pt. in the flight that the child started screaming & the crew gave the parents no time to comfort her & get her in her seat. Who’s to say, as you seem to believe, that the crew began telling passengers & these parents to get in their seats & buckle up at the beginning of that 15 minute period??
The airline does not specify that the delay was caused by the child nor should you. One of the problems in our society is that no one has empathy for anyone else anymore. And if we can’t muster any empathy for a parent with a child undergoing a meltdown, what are we worth as a society? Must children conform to your adult standards of behavior in order to be acceptable citizens of your society?
You know or should know that airline staff have considerable latitude in determining what is acceptable behavior on a plane. What got this family thrown off might never have happened on the flight I took & which I referred to in my post. We don’t live our lives concerned solely with whether we’re violating city, state or federal regulations nor should airline crew unless it imperative for the proper functioning of their airplane. There are times you must be strict & times you can let things slide. I’d have thought this incident would’ve been one where a stewardess could’ve shown a bit more compassion & empathy.
I think this is AWESOME! I have had so many flights ruined because of bratty children & parents who seem to not be able to hear them yell and scream and cry. And apparently they can’t smell stinky diapers either.
People need to take control of their children and not expect the world to revolve around them!
Spoken like a true boor. I wrote in a comment above that people in this society have lost the ability to have empathy for those who are different from them. This is true of you as well.
Look, we’ve all been 3 yrs old. We’ve all screamed on planes. We’ve all inflicted a bit of punishment on others. How would we like ourselves or our parents to be treated in such situations? Would we want the book thrown at us by the airline & be unceremoniously booted from the plane just because we acted as all infants act? Or would we want a bit of humanity & forbearance shown?
You’re clearly another childless person or one who has forgotten what childrearing is like. Have you ever tried to change a baby’s diaper in an airplane restroom with no changing table? It’s quite a feat to change yr baby by balancing it on the narrow metal restroom sink while trying to ensure it doesn’t fall off the sink onto the restroom floor. Maybe that’s why you had to smell a stinky diaper. And btw, don’t you think some adult once had to smell yr stinky diaper?
To quote Elvis Costello: “Whatever happened to truth, love & understanding” (& a little empathy)?
That’s funny, because the first lesson that any parent learns is that once they have a child the world no longer revolves around them, but rather around their child. All parents, or at least all good parents are completely cognizant that the world doesn’t revolve around them. But you apparently believe the world should revolve around you and yr prejudices against children who are merely acting like children.
The kid ONLY has to be in her seat during takeoff & landing?” That’s ONLY the most stressful part of the flight. The part where their ears feel enormous pressure which they don’t understand. The part in which they’re terrified about these physical changes to their environment. The part where they often scream bloody murder because you can’t explain what’s happening to them. It’s you who ought to give the rest of us a break, I’m afraid.
Amen to that…and I speak from experience (at least what has been told me by my parents). I think I was about your kids’ age; I had been on plane trips between Honolulu and Maui before and been OK. Something about one flight back home must’ve scared the living daylights out of me, ’cause I cried from the moment we took off from Kahului to the moment we landed in Honolulu. Thank goodness interisland flights are only 20 minutes long!
I think the fact that the flight was delayed 15 minutes tells me something. 15 minutes just happens to be the cutoff before a flight is considered delayed according to government statistics. Coincidence? I think not.
Why are you, Richard, so sympathetic to the parents situation? As you noted, none of us was actually there so we don’t know what or how things actually transpired.
Airlines often have difficulty handling even normal issues with tact and respect toward their customers, so it’s easy to believe that they could have handled this situation better with the family when they were OFF the plane. As a previous poster said, they could have let them fly on the next flight if they could strap in the kid. From my experience, airlines are not too worried about crying, screaming kids so long as they are in their seats.
As far as on the plane, it is likely that they gave the family at least 2-3 minutes to get the child into the seat before they took the outwardly unpopular step of ejecting them. Some parents will negotiate with their children forever seemingly oblivious of the impact on others. So it would appear that they had at least some time to pick up their child, place her in her seat and lock the belt, without regard to what she was doing.
Yes I think that we American adults are often too intolerant of things that are not “just so”, but having my own children who have screamed through hours of flight, the parents should have been able to get her in the seat. Or I believe being ejected for the greater good is acceptable.
Because I’m a parent of 3 children of whom my twins are 2 yrs. old. Because we fly on planes twice a yr at least & are sensitive to both the problems we might cause others & how we’re treated by others, specifically airline crews. Because I believe whenever possible the benefit of the doubt & human empathy should be shown to others who bear a heavier burden than we do (i.e. parents with a toddler on a plane).
YOu may not have read the article from the Worcester Telegram quoted at the end of the post but…the airline specifically banned the family fr. flying for 24 hours. Now, do you still think the airline acted reasonably??
Again, if you read the Telegram article it appears they might’ve given the family that amt. of time to quiet her. But since you’ve had yr own 3 yr old on a plane or anywhere where he/she’s unruly, you’re prob. aware that it sometimes takes more than 2-3 mins. to quiet a child–esp. if the child is very upset as Elly was in this case.
You’re stupid. And if you have kids, God help us all if we end up on the same flight!
Remember what I wrote above about people in this society having no compassion for those different fr. themselves? Jill has this affliction in spades. But hey, if you let me know when you’re flying I’ll make sure my family doesn’t cross paths. I’d hate to have to share a plane ride with someone as boorish as you.
I’m not a parent but I travel often and that is the perspective that I am offering my comment. I’ve been on many flights where the children (especially young ones) had trouble adjusting to the air pressure, amount of time spent in the plane etc. For the most part, I’m pretty understanding but there is a BIG difference between a small child crying because she/he is feeling uncomfortable because of the air pressure and a child who is misbehaving and throwing a tantrum. Parents should realize that the behavior of their children is a nuisance to other people and they should be as empathetic to us as they expect us to be towards them.
In the situation with the 3-year-old girl, the airline was only out of line in the fact that it prohibited the family from flying for 24 hours. The plane was already delayed for 15 minutes (whether that was because of this child or not is irrelevant) so the parents had those 15 minutes PLUS the extra boarding time that is given to parents with young children to calm their daughter down and get her ready for the flight. If the parents weren’t on time for their flight and lost that window of opportunity that is their fault. Again, I think it was unfair of the airline to ask them to wait 24 hours before flying but it would have been unfair to the other 100+ passengers to wait while they calmed down their daughter. Consider the passengers who had connecting flights. Was their layover 2 hours or 30 minutes? Also, consider that by delaying the flight would have lost its place in the take-off line-up. Delaying that flight could have had a big effect in someone else’s schedule and who are we to tell them that their schedule is not as important as the comfort of this family.
Ultimately, it’s the parents’ responsibility to get and keep their child under control. When I have children I hope that I’m never in that predicament but if I am I hope that I’m mature enough to understand that there are other people who should be considered in these situations.
This Richard guy is a boor himself, calling everyone who disagrees with him names. Truth is, in American society today we have extremes… crazy people who neglect and abuse children… and people like this family, who seem to be so child centered (and yes, that can be bad) that two adults can’t get a 3 year old in a seat. Pathetic.
The parents should have volunteered to take the child off the plane and taken a later flight once she calmed down. The rights of one screaming toddler do not supercede that of 112 other passengers and FAA regulations. End of discussion.
And the parents weren’t banned – in a move nearly as bratty as that of their child, they refused the offer of taking a connecting flight and insisted on a direct one. That was the holdup.
My mother would have put up with that kind of behavior for about a nanosecond. If your child isn’t old enough to behave on a plane flight, send a ticket to grandpa to come visit you.
I have enjoyed and appreciated your view on this incident. It is always helpful to get ideas from all sides. While I understand and empathise with some of your points — I still absolutely agree to disagree. I have worked as a flight attendant for 20 years. I know first hand how incredibly ESCALATED a (non-security) situation must become to have anyone removed from a flight. Believe me, it IS the last resort!
I also raised two children. Had I been the parent in such a situation, I honestly believe that I would have asked the airline personnel for a later flight. Yes, some children do have tantrums — and some good ones at that! I always took the responsibility of removing my child from the restaurant, grocery store, etc. in those rare occurances. Yup, sometimes I was inconvenienced, but guess what?! They were (are) MY children! Then again, putting myself in the parents shoes, perhaps things just happened so fast, and they did not really have time to think things through.
I am not saying the (apparent) tantrum was the parents’ fault! It is however their responsibility to deal with it in a manner that does not inconvenience so many others! It would be interesting to get input from the actual passengers that witnessed this. Doubt anyone would have said, “Oh well, I’ll chance missing my connection, as long as sweet little Elly is calmed down and a happy camper!” It is the airline’s business to consider the majority of their customers’ interest with these difficult decisions.
All airline departure delays affect many people for the ENTIRE day. There are many delays that cannot be avoided (weather, mechanicals, etc.). The whole industry has become maddening for sure. I truly dislike traveling as a passenger these days and I truly empathise — especially with those traveling with children! (been there!)
Am writing off the cuff here — so please excuse me if I am jumping points! In my work, I witness the apparent loss of parental authority over the years. This makes it difficult for everyone including the children! On a recent flight, a Mom asked ME to tell her son that he had to sit down and put on his seatbelt! ! I kindly did so — but what I really wanted to do was say “WHO is the parent here????!!” This is a side point. I have no idea how the parents we are talking about run their family.
There was mention that little Elly had recently had some sort of ear surgury — and that perhaps the pain that she experienced from the previous flight spurred her reactions. This is a possibility — and a possibility that should well have been considered before booking the first flight.
The whole incident had to be embarassing for this family. It would have remained small news if they had not brought the attention on with their (uh-hmm) whining. In my years of service, I have witnessed only one passenger removed from a flight prior to departure — and that was an illegal alien. I have witnessed MANY that I wished I would not have to spend a few hours with while locked in a metal tube at 35,000 feet in the air. The drunk and overly obnoxious! But never a crying child! While not a for sure fact, it is very likely that the little girl’s behavior was over the top…..WAYYYYYY over the top!
Before closing … just want to say that it was actually very irresponsible for the Continental crew to allow a child to land while sleeping on the floor. Flying is much safer than driving statistically — however, the most critical phases of flight are the first eight minutes and the last three minutes. It is so rare that something happens– but as crew members we try to take every measure to be prepared for the unexpected. A simple skid off the runway could have resulted in injury to the child. Does that happen often — of course not, but it does happen. The crew and airline would have been handed a hefty fine by the FAA had an FAA agent witnessed this — or had just a nosy passenger reported it. I already understand your points about making exceptions in trying circumstances — I do that everyday. Just would not have done this one. Then again, perhaps the crew kept their distance because there was a sick child traveling with a fever (contagious?) in that confined tube with everyone breathing the same air. Perhaps there was no other choice. Whole ‘nother subject!
“”Doesn’t a child recovering from an ear operation deserve to be cut some slack?”"
Yes! Her parents could have cut her some slack! I am assuming there was a doctor’s approval for Elly to fly so soon after such an operation. This story raises so many issues, doesn’t it!?!
Hey thanks for a place to read others opinions!
I only publish nitwit comments like this to show the commenters for intemperate, insensitive rubes people they are.
This child had had an ear operation earlier in the month you twit. Have you no sympathy for a 3 yr old terrified about flying after she’s had a harrowing descent on her previous flight due to her still healing ear? I hope the next time you have such a condition you enjoy similarly insensitive treatment yourself.
If I’m pathetic it’s only because I’ve had such a good teacher in insensitive souls like you.
As you provide no link to verify your claim, I will provide a quotation to verify mine (taken from the Telegram article linked in the post above):
Who should we believe?
try Associated Press, see second to last paragraph:
Airline: Public OK With Decision To Bump Disruptive Child
POSTED: 4:33 pm EST January 24, 2007
AirTran Airways said Wednesday it’s getting overwhelming support from the public for bumping a screaming toddler from a flight.
Airline spokesman Tad Hutcheson said the company’s getting swamped with e-mails and phone calls, and 92 percent support the decision to get the tantrum-raising toddler off the plane. He said about 8 percent are opposed.
Julie and Gerry Kulesza were heading home to Boston last week from Fort Myers, Fla., when their daughter Elly got upset. She cried and refused to get strapped in her seat.
And cried. And cried.
Hutcheson said that the tantrum started when the family boarded, and went 15 minutes past the departure time. The crew and gate agent decided the family had to get off, so the flight could go on.
Federal regulations require all passengers be strapped into their seats.
Julie Kulesza said she was angry when she found out they’d have to wait 24 hours for another flight. AirTran said connections were available, but the family wanted nonstop only.
The family has refused the company’s offer of free tickets. They were given a refund for the flight they had to leave.”
AirTran’s obligation is to get its 100+ passengers from Point A to Point B on schedule and to abide by FAA regulations, which they were on the verge of being unable to do because the parents somehow thought the rules didn’t apply to them. Again, if the parents were unable to control the child, they (or one of them) should have volunteered to get off, calm the child down, and take a later flight.
As evidenced by their behavior, these people are completely self-absorbed.
Richard
Call me a boor or insensitive or whatever helps you feel good. I raised two kids, we flew many times when they were young. My son is hyperactive and found sitting for more than 15 minutes absolute torture. When possible, he could get up, or wiggle, or do whatever he needed to do. When it wasn’t possible, as in take offs or landings, he sat and dealt with it. You clearly do not understand how critical keeping schedules are in the airline business, or how expensive delays are for the airline and passengers. I doubt you care. This precious 3 year old was in charge, not the parents, and the flight crew were forced to take action. For this, you brand them (and anyone who disagrees with you) insensitive, uncaring, etc. etc.
Sorry, kids should NOT be in charge, and by the time they are 3 they need to understand that when mommy and daddy say no, it’s time to sit down, put on your seat belt, and behave. Hiding under a seat and hitting an adult? Yeah, all kids (me included when I was one) try it. If the parents do their job, (mine did) they only try it once. At the end of the day, this comes down to the airline exercising it’s responsibility and a family not liking the result. You need to pay attention to what most people are saying; kudos to the airline, and the parents need to take charge of their kid.
Any chance, any chance at all, that you might be wrong in defending the parents??
Well, then apparently we have a dispute between 2 sources. You seem willing to believe an unnamed, unquoted, unsourced corporate flack. A corporate flack who has every interest in making his company look good in this situation. I don’t know who’s right. But I’m comfortable sticking with the source I quoted unless you can provide an explanation for the discrepancy bet. the 2 stories.
Another thing that makes me doubt the reliability of this article is this false statement:
As most parents know, fed regulations require all passengers OVER THE AGE OF 2 to be strapped in their seats.
I respect yr. disagreement. It’s the nitwits & know-it-alls who show such intolerance that I have problems with. You’ve at least voiced yr disagreement in civil terms which I appreciate.
I also appreciate your acknowledging that things aren’t always black & white when you’re dealing w. stressful situations involving children. I agree that there are times when you just have to remove yr child fr. such situations & not burden others with something that is really yours and your child’s responsibility. But traveling on a plane is one of those grey areas since everyone is basically trapped inside a moving object for hours on end. You don’t always have the option of physically removing yourself.
Keep in mind too that the husband had a 16 hr shift coming up as an emergency medical services tech. I wouldn’t have wanted to lv. the plane either under those circumstances & miss my professional responsibilities.
This from the Telegram article:
As a parent I cannot imagine having my child undergo ear surgery & NOT asking the doctor whether she would be OK to fly. I don’t know this for a fact, but I’d be reasonable certain that they had the doc’s approval for her to fly. It’s not hard to imagine that despite the doc’s thinking she could handle the ear pressure, she reacted more sensitively than expected. It might not be something the parent’s could’ve reasonably anticipated.
Now, here you had me thinking you were the exception to the intolerant others who’ve attacked these victims. Apparently not. One person’s ‘whining’ is another person’s legitimate grievance. Perhaps we should suggest that the parent’s sue the airline for the financial loss & humiliation the airline caused them. Then we’d let a judge decide. If they can’t elicit any sympathy fr. you & others in society, then let the law decide if they endured a tort. I’d think they might have a case.
You yourself admit in yr 20 yrs of service you’ve never seen a child ejected fr. a flight. That should tell you something. Naturally, being a flight attendant you cannot conceive that the flight crew in this case might’ve been in the wrong–terribly in the wrong. Perhaps they reacted hastily, intolerantly in a situation where perhaps some of the tact you showed in asking that child to get into his seat might’ve produced a different result than ejection. I don’t know who was in the wrong here. Could’ve been the child–could’ve been the crew. All I’m asking is that people consider both those options as possible.
I’m glad you acknowledge this possibility. She WAS sick as a dog. I don’t know how contagious she was (& by the way this came on suddenly & fiercely & we wouldn’t have boarded the flight had she been in that condition before we boarded the first flight of the day) but she was one miserable puppy. We didn’t allow her to sleep on the floor lightly I assure you. We were aware of the risks. We hated doing it. But what was the alternative? Forcing a feverish little girl who ended up throwing up 5 times before the day was out to sit in her seat wailing & possibly throwing up again–until we landed? Forcing everyone around us to endure this havoc? We made a calculated judgment. Yes, if anything had happened we would’ve regreted it for the rest of our lives perhaps. But sometimes as parents we’re forced to make choices between something bad and something worse. You don’t like those situations because they make you feel like you’re being a bad parent. But you have to make the choice nevertheless.
Well darn that liberal media – how dare they report the words of a major airline instead of accepting as gospel two whiny parents! Who needs balance when you can just go with emotion! The admittedly biased columnist took the parents’ word for it, why can’t AP? Jeez, where’s Faux News when you need them?
You’ve lost the argument, so now you’re making a distinction without a difference. Whether it was all passengers or passengers over the age of two, that child, according to federal regulations, was required to be in her seat and wearing a seatbelt upon takeoff. She wasn’t, the parents were unable or unwilling to abide by the same rules as everyone else on the airplane, so the appropriate decision was made.
The parents in this case seem to be quite adept at hearing what they want to hear and to be completely tone-deaf to anyone else. I have no doubt they’d worked themselves into such a self-righteous frenzy that if immediate gratification wasn’t available, they interpreted as some massive conspiracy.
I’m planning on flying AirTran as soon as possible.
Guess I don’t need to. You already did.
You may’ve raised kids but clearly did so so long ago that you’ve lost the ability to empathize w. someone else who’s still dealing w. the thorny issues of childraising. The first rule about child-rearing, which you never learned clearly, is that while there are rules, no rule was made that couldn’t or shouldn’t be broken once in a while. Should parents be in charge? Much of the time perhaps. Are there ever instances in which parents must sit back & let their child take the lead & tell parents what they need? You bet. When a child is in terror of what they believe will be ear-splitting pain is that the time you choose to use your best Charles Bronson-Rambo imitation and put them in their place.
You sound like a drill sergeant. Is that how you raised yr kids? It works for some I guess, but not for me & not for my kids.
Again w. the drill sergeant routine. What do you do? Put ‘em in a hammerlock & make ‘em cry Uncle?? My kids hit me. But we worked it out of their systems eventually. But thankfully not by whatever methods you might’ve used.
And that’s precisely the pt. here. Everyone has a diff. way of parenting. Why are you & so many others here so full of righteousness about knowing the “right way” of parenting; and being so damn sure that the other guy doesn’t know shit fr. shinola? It’s ludicrous really.
Oh but I have. I’ve read all the comments here & lots of other blogs as well. You know, if a million people tell me something which I know is absolute rubbish what am I supposed to do? Bow down & worship at the altar of the majority? No way. Tens of millions of Americans at one time thought George Bush would make a great president. Now almost no one will admit they voted for him. That’s the beauty of democracy. We’ll just let time decide who’s right.
Let me turn that around…is there any chance at all that all of you are dead wrong & that a quick-tempered, insensitive stewardess ruined this family’s day, week and month by being brusque where a word of kindess & sensitivity might’ve resolved it?
If you’ve read my reply to Sara I concede that we don’t know who precisely is in the right since none of us were there. It is possible I’m wrong (which is a lot more open-minded than the intolerant folks in this thread). But I base my judgments on the preponderance of evidence fr. what I’ve read. Unless you can provide evidence fr. someone there or someone with authoritive information that shows the parents to be other than what they appear to me to be–then no, I don’t think I’m wrong.
Parents professing to be as concerned as these two place their child on a flight when she has just experienced excrutiating post-surgical ear pain on a previous flight? How is this good parenting? The responsibility for the child’s ear comfort was that of the parents, not the airline. Planes do not run on time, and business does not get accomplished by accommodating the needs of the few to the detiment of the many.
Silverstein is very sympathetic towards this one family, but has he polled the other passengers and the crew to see what special needs they might have had? Has it even occurred to him they might have had any needs? Maybe he should set himself up as a judge to decide whose need was greatest. Wouldn’t that make sense!
Gerry Kulesza wanted to be on time for work? I’m quite certain the other passengers had appointments, jobs, and connecting flights to be on time for, but Silverstein is not concerned about that.
May this family (or one just like them) be seated directly behind him on every flight he takes for the rest of his life.
One of the first rules of sourcing journalistic reports is that to be fully credible you must quote you source and name your source especially if they are making a controversial or disputed claim. This AP story not only got federal airline regulations dead wrong, it didn’t even quote or name the source for the claim that the family was NOT banned for 24 hours. I HAVE a source who claims otherwise. They were named & quoted. They were there. Whose evidence is more credible? Now, I concede that this is the view of only one party and another eyewitness may have a contrary view. But the airline has chosen not to make any employee involved in the incident available to the press. That’s their problem. Until they do, they leave the field to the family.
“Admittedly biased?” The columnist did not “admit” she’s biased. Where do you get this from? You believe she’s biased. That’s an entirely diff. story.
Only in yr alleged mind.
Untrue. The parents were willing. They tried. But they needed more time to try to console the baby. They were unceremoniously booted off the plane before they had that opportunity.
And don’t give me (if you were planning to) the argument that the 15 minute delay was sufficient time. If a flight attendant came up to the family at the beginning of that 15 min. interval & asked them to place the baby in the seat & they didn’t then I’ll concede they were given sufficient time. But no report I’ve read says that this is what happened. The airline claims there was an unspecified delay. Don’t you think given how obnoxious they’ve been toward the family that if the child was the cause of that delay they would’ve said so in their statement to the press? The fact they didn’t indicated to me the baby had nothing to do with it.
You’re talking out of yr ass. You don’t know the first thing about these people. You’ve made judgments about them based on almost no evidence other than what the airline said. You’ve used the self-confirming prejudice and hostility of other online know it alls to buttress yr animus.
Please do. Then I’ll know that AirTran is the proud home of so many of the intolerant, insensitive, know-it-alls moralizers out there. But if I were a parent of young children I’d fly Continental. You’ll prob. be treated a lot better. But most importantly you most likely won’t be ridden out of yr flight on a rail for your child’s alleged infractions.
Again with the moralizing about other people’s parenting skills. You people are insufferable, do you know it?
None of us know precisely what happened on the previous flight. The mother said Elly experienced discomfort, perhaps enough to make her unwilling to get into her seat. How is that enough evidence for you to label the parents incompetent? You have a lot of goddamn nerve. I only hope that when you have children you’ll be placed precisely in such a situation and that someone will give you as little benefit of the doubt as you’ve offered these folks. And if you’ve had children & been in this situation before then shame on you because you should know what it’s like to need a little understanding from outsiders instead of hostility.
Before spouting, why don’t you read my earlier reply in which I quoted the mother saying that passengers offered their child a lollipop and that no other passengers expressed the type of animus which so much of the rest of the obtuse blogosphere is heaping on them right now. People seemed to understand her predicament which is more than I can say for you.
You twit–you’re giving me bile! I HAVE been seated near such families before. And at least some of the time a sympathetic smile, an offer of a treat or toy, a gentle wave of the hand is enough to distract an unhappy child fr. their misery at least for a few moments. Apparently, you’ve forgotten about or never knew the power of such gestures of empathy.
At 3:48 PM, Silverstein asks Steve Schutz –”Are there ever instances in which parents must sit back & let their child take the lead & tell parents what they need? You bet. When a child is in terror of what they believe will be ear-splitting pain is that the time you choose to use your best Charles Bronson-Rambo imitation and put them in their place.”
But then at 10:10 PM he says that the mother described the sensation as
“experienc(ing) discomfort.” Discomfort, or ear-splitting pain? Do you even read your own words? Make up your mind. The two are quite different.
Silverstein says that , “at times, the child should take the lead, when in terror of earsplitting pain. ” Yes, and the child seems to have been saying to her parents that she did not want to be on that flight. So why did they ignore her instead of acceding to her wishes and taking her off and taking a non airborne way home? After all, she clearly did not want to be on the plane! Could it be that they wanted Air Tran to put them off so they could blame them and them get a refund and lots of media attention? And them then the ultimate prize–a SETTLEMENT.
Was I moralizing about their parenting skills or was I asking a reasonable question? Your jibe at me does not explain why the parents chose to subject her to pain or discomfort again.
You have chosen to not answer that question. Why?
Silverstein says I have labeled the parents “incompetent.” I did not use that word. But he just did!!! Was it Freudian, or did he slip up and say something correct for a change? I leave the name-calling to him. He called me an ignorant twit because I disagreed with him. That makes sense when you have no valid point to make.
What do offers of lollipops have to do with anything? Did all 112 people offer them? Did the ones who offered speak for everyone else? I doubt it. And not screaming and ranting about their needs is not proof that no needs existed among the others.
I can’t wait to fly Air Tran, knowing that Silverstein and his bile will not be aboard.