The Geneva Initiative provides for a reasonable means of determining who & how many Palestinians should return. If enough compensation is provided to those who choose NOT to return then you probably wouldn’t need to determine who should return. The refugees themselves might do so, voting with their feet (or “pocketbook” in this case).

“I don’t disapprove of the Right of Return. I disapprove of an open-ended Right of Return & the possibility that several hundred thousand former refugees might physically return to Israel. I AM in favor of a Right of Return that permits a defined number of refugees to return to Israel”

Hmmm I’m not sure I understand you here. The Arabs that were expelled of their land between 1947-48 numbered between 600,000 to 750,000. Massive populations were driven away by Israeli terror as documented by Benny Morris, Chomsky ect… Lots more were driven out in the 1950s when Israel violated the 1949 peace armistice with Jordan by launching incursions in the DMZs of the west bank. Recall that the bulk of the Fadeyeen members were those that Israel had driven out in the 50s (Chomsky, “Fateful triangle”). And then from 67 to now Israel has expelled several thousand more Arabs in their settlement building routine. Given that Israel has been continuously expelling Arabs over the period of its existence, which arabs according to you, have the right to return to Israel?

But I ask you this: if every jew (wherever he or she is) has the unconditional right of return to Palestine, why not every Arab that was expelled? Isn’t this injustice?

Jews should be free to live wherever they wish. But to think that Israeli Jews would welcome expulsion from Israel and their return to countries they personally never lived in (though their grandparents or great grandparents might have) is beyond ludicrous.

Jews emigrating to Germany are largely doing so from Russia. There may be some Israelis living in Germany, but I doubt the number is very large. Keep in mind that Amin is not merely calling for Jews to be able to live in countries like Germany. He’s calling for the expulsion of Jews from Israel & their forcible resettlement in their so-called countries of origin.

I don’t disapprove of the Right of Return. I disapprove of an open-ended Right of Return & the possibility that several hundred thousand former refugees might physically return to Israel. I AM in favor of a Right of Return that permits a defined number of refugees to return to Israel while providing for financial compensation to those who choose not to return.

When I first visited your blog, I skimmed through it, since I did not have much time to read it in detail. I was impressed. I liked your stance on peace and tolerance, but I must confess that I am disappointed. Firstly I am saddened by your attack on Amin Nusseibeh. There is nothing wrong with suggesting that jews should be able to return to their countries of origin in Europe, but not forcefully ofcourse. Infact a lot of jews have been migrating to Germany, and this emmigration has even surpassed emmigration to Israel. There have been many articles that have stated this, here’s one I googled quickly:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/03/wjews03.xml

secondly, maybe I have misunderstood you, but I am also saddened that you disapprove of the refugee right of return. If someone was forcefully driven of their land, should they not be allowed back? Especially when most of them are still alive? If jews driven out of their land 2000 years ago magically gain a license to return, shouldnt also the Palestinians be given that right?

Tommorow if Canada changed its name to : “The United Anglo Saxon provinces of Canada”, the first people to jump up and down in protest would be Jews. Yet the same jews are more than willing to defend the “jewish” character of Israel. Why the double standard?

In a hysterical fit of what psychologists call “projection.”

We already know Joshua is a Middle East analyst, free speech expert, marketing executive and now to crown it all–he’s a psychologist. A man of so many talents. Too bad, his expertise is so wide and so very thin.

You then go on to ignore the issues and instead dive into a tirade of “everything I hate about Israel”

More lies. My social analysis of Israel was based on facts; based on scores of Israeli newspaper articles; and posts from Israeli bloggers who know firsthand whereof they speak. If it wasn’t, pls. do point out any of the judgments or facts I raised which were false.

Further, these facts were NOT “hate.” I do not hate Israel because one in three children live in poverty. I am angry about this fact as are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other Israelis. I hate the poverty, but not the nation which allows it to happen.

I hate poverty here in our country too. But the diff. is Israel is rooted in a Biblical tradition which calls for acts of lovingkindness on behalf of the poor and the weak. When demagogues like Netanyahu destroy almost every social program that protected these individuals fr. the ravages of poverty, then I am angry. But not at Israel. Rather, I am angry at the politician which devised these great “reforms” and the party which he leads. And I am angry at their sycophants (that would be you) who sing their praises.

you change the subject by talking about income inequality and poverty in Israel

Not at all. You were the one who changed the subject since you refused to argue with the NBI index and instead claimed that it didn’t matter what anyone in the world thought of Israel, since Israel was getting on so swimmingly it didn’t need to care what anyone thought of it. You changed the subject by introducing the fiction of the Israeli economic miracle.

I answered you by pointing that your economic miracle barely concealed economic injustice and inequality which you refused to acknowledge.

Israel was diplomatically isolated and economically a third world country 30 years ago, and now is unquestionably diplomaticaly [sic]and economically better off.

What, are you deaf, dumb & blind. Of course I don’t contest Israel is better off now than it was then. But your claim is essentially meaningless since Israel could be exponentially better off than it is now if it wasn’t chained to a dead end military security policy that promised endless war with its neighbors.

Finally, the thousands of Israeli dead going back to 1948 and earlier argue that all is not honky dory in Glockamora as you argue about Israel. No amt. of economic success can paper over a major dysfunction in the nature of Israeli society. And Israel can never be a success as a nation until it resolves that dysfunction. I don’t care if Warren Buffet invests $100 billion in Israel–it won’t make a whit of difference if such a huge percentage of the national treasury is devoted to maintaining the war machine; and such a huge amt. of human labor is devoted to defending the homeland (or maintaining domination over a conquered people).

Further, I do not believe that Israel can continue indefinitely in its present state by attempting to maintain such policies. There will come “a Pharaoh who knew not Joseph” in U.S. presidential politics and Israel will no longer lead the charmed life it has enjoyed essentially since 1967 as a U.S. protectorate. Or there will come a time when an Arab state or states will rival Israel’s military prowess . Then no amt. of U.S. support may save Israel. So I argue why tempt the fates? Why wait for such a thing to happen? Why not be proactive & resolve the conflict before the conflict swallows you whole?

you claim that Israel is a “pariah” nation because other countries choose to locate their embassies in Tel Aviv rather than Jerusalem

No, you have bowdlerized my views. Israel is a pariah nation because it has conquered territory and subjugated a nation and no one aside fr. the U.S. & a few others recognize this act. Well, even the U.S. officially refuses to recognize it–but unofficially of course winks at it. The failure to house embassies in Jerusalem is but a symptom of the underlying rejection & pariah state.

But Israel also would do worse if it ultimately took actions that allowed its enemies to destroy it.

Only you and yr rightist compatriots believe that a negotiated settlement of the Israeli Arab conflict would “destroy” Israel. Welcome, to your nightmare. But not my nightmare. It is your views which would eventually destroy Israel as it can only die if it tries to maintain perpetual dominance as you would have it do.

To simply say, “give them what they want” (or really, “give them what I, Richard Silverstein, demand”) is not a guarantor of peace or stability.

Another falsification of my views. Peace treaties with Palestine, Syria and Lebanon will not merely “give them what they want.” It will give Israel AND THEM what they each collectively & individually want.

And besides, it is not just what these particular nations want;and it certainly has nothing to do with anything I want or demand. It is rather what the international community demands. Israel has conquered territory recognized internationally as belonging to them. The only way to resolve the situation is by Israel honoring those international norms. By returning territory, Israel stands to gain all the recognition and security it claims to crave from the Arab nations.

Tourism does fluctuate based on how much media coverage the violence gets.

More delusion. Tourism does NOT fluctuate based on how much MEDIA COVERAGE the violence gets. The media covers violence when it happens. People decide not to come because of the violence and not because it is covered. Besides, in yr weird world if there was violence it would NOT be covered and then no one would know about it; tourists would flock to Israel, never know there was any violence, have a wonderful time, tell all their friends to come, and all would be for the best in this best of all possible world. What a crock!

the fact is that Israel is much safer for visitors then it is made out to be.

It is not mere safety that keeps tourists away. That is but one major factor among many when people decide where to travel. It is their aversion to visiting a country which subjugates several million people. That is a hump Israel can never get over till it ends the Occupation. You don’t have to take my word for it. The facts & figures are all there in the NBI study.

As it happens, I was just there, and the people I met who were also visiting were not religious pilgrims, or even Republicans! They were an incredibly diverse group of people who just wanted to see Israel, and they all loved it!

And on the basis of this entirely anecdotal evidence (anecdotal evidence fr. an entirely biases source I might add) that we’re supposed to believe that the Israeli tourism industry is running at full speed and producing millions of happy, repeat customers. Hey, why don’t you work for the Israeli tourism ministry or the foreign ministry. You’d make an excellent propagandist on their behalf (that is, unless you actually do work as a shill, er employee for them).

…Diamonds are cut, polished, set, and again traded in Israel.

I never said they weren’t. But no one outside the diamond industry and perhaps Israelis themselves knows this. Diamonds are not known or marketed internationally by their country of origin (except South Africa). If an ordinary Joe wanted to buy a diamond it would be highly unlikely he would ask specifically for an Israeli diamond and it would be highly unlikely a jewelry store would promote diamonds based on their being cut in Israel. My point is that for most people a diamond being Israeli made would not be a selling point. And I would bet that the diamond industries in New York and Brussels would far surpass Israel’s in size & vitality.

Consumers can purchase diamonds from all over the world, and they choose to buy them from Israel.

It is an absolutely unprovable statement that someone buying a retail diamond buys it because it comes from Israel. Unless you’re privy to diamond industry consumer surveys.

Israeli products are widely available around the world.

An entirely debatable pt. But my response would be they would be 100 or 1000 times more available if there were peace.

I think we would all like the conflict in Israel to be resolved

No, you don’t want the conflict resolved–unless that is it is resolved on Israeli terms that involve no substantial sacrifice or compromise. A pipe dream that means it will never be resolved. So you can’t let yourself off that easy by claiming you love peace as much as the next person.

“Indian-Israeli trade…grew from $200 million in 1992 to $2.4 billion in 2005.”

Indian exports to the EU are $24 billion this year and to the U.S., $14 billion. You’ve got a ways to go.

Exports have risen 19% to the Arab world!

You’ve got to be kidding. You neglect to mention what the dollar value is: $292 million! Ask yourself how much trade the U.S. does with Canada; Britain does with France; Germany does with Poland or Japan does with South Korea. The comparison would be pathetic. We probably do more trade with Canada in a day or less than Israel did with all its Arab neighbors in 9 months.

I weary of this interchange & no longer have any interest to continue sparring with you. Write at yr own risk since everything from here on out is likely to be dumped in the trash.