Are we compelled for moral or inter-communal peace reasons to accept face value that it was all created in a vacuum and that in no way shape or form was this a product of his environment? Is maintaining what I define as a dose of healthy skepticism towards all the condemnations (until sincerity is displayed beyond a reasonable doubt) a negative or counterproductive approach

My wife just told me about a Seattle PI story (which I haven’t yet read) which describes Haq’s mother begging him not to make this trip to Seattle. She says she “had a bad feeling” about what might happen. But she could not persuade him not to go & of course she had no idea what he was planning.

I think when you’re dealing w. severe mental illness (as this individual seems to face) looking for root causes in his environment is problematic. The mentally ill take their cues from many different sources not all of which are their parental upbringing.

Of course to an extent the Muslim community’s response is self-serving. They want to protect themselves fr. a backlash so they express concern. But I have no doubt that many, many Muslims are genuinely aghast at this and feel genuine sorrow for what’s happened. I’d like to think that despite our religious/political differences that we can have enough fellow feeling for ea. other to experience sincere emotions of regret & revulsion.

His previous charge of lewd behavior and history of mental disorders does give solid creedence to the idea that it wasn’t out of “religious” or political conviction that led him to commit murder – the “murder” charge of course pending the outcome of the trial or plea bargain.

However, a question which I believe warrants investigation is WHY events turned this way.

There is unfortunately no shortage of people with serious mental disorders. Without statistics to cite, it’s reasonable to assume that the majority are not violent. It’s quite one thing for someone lacking the proper psychological bearings to be a functional person to develop delusions and illusions of all kinds such as UFOs listening in on phone calls (especially when Dept of Homeland Security is much more efficient at that).

However, it’s another thing in its entirety to accept absorb the stock and trade propaganda of hatemongers and take it to it’s lethal extreme.

Are we compelled for moral or inter-communal peace reasons to accept face value that it was all created in a vacuum and that in no way shape or form was this a product of his environment? Is maintaining what I define as a dose of healthy skepticism towards all the condemnations (until sincerity is displayed beyond a reasonable doubt) a negative or counterproductive approach if it serves as a preventive measure to furture incidents of this type, Heaven Forbid?

She sounds like a wonderful human being and one that I would be have been lucky to get to know. Before I read the article this morning, I knew a person was killed in Seattle. Now I know of a wonderful human being who sounds very much like people many people I know and love.

This was an tragedy born by so many wrongs in our world. A deeply disturbed individual in a society that treats not only the mental ill with comtempt, but gives very little value to those who strive to help them (my wife is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker).

Until we repair the world – so many tragedies – so much loss and pain and suffering…

They are radical Islamists and they are officially the government. That sounds like a radical islamist government to me.

Not at all. They are only a radical Islamist government if they enact laws and adhere to a political agenda that represents a radical Islamist government. Do you really think Al Qaeda or any true Islamic radicals would be happy with the government Hamas has formed? Besides, Hamas will shortly enter into a unity government with Fatah in which it will be forced to share power with a secular party which finds Hamas’ theocratic views anathema. Does this sound like a radical Islamist party about to impose its will on all of Palestinian society? Hardly.

Regarding Hamas & Fatah’s ideology…I didn’t say I like what they represent. We’d both love a nice social democratic party to arise in Palestine which would govern responsibly & competently. That simply ain’t gonna happen any time soon for reasons too numerous to go into here. We’ve got to deal with the political cards we’re dealt & not with the hand we wish we’d been dealt. Hamas was elected to lead for the time being. They’re the hand we’ve been dealt. Deal with it.

It isn’t hypothetical. Hizbullah has already achieved sub-statehood. A civil war might be a favorable development
for them.

No, you were claiming that Hamas has taken “major steps” toward realizing a radical Islamist government. That is patently false.

Why? They are radical Islamists and they are officially the government. That sounds like a radical islamist government to me. They have to deal with rivals who are not so keen on giving up power, but a brute struggle for power does not equal democratic checks and balances.

We can all try to look into people’s minds & try to read what their intent might be if they had their way. But the pt. is that in a democracy with a strong opposition, the ruling majority doesn’t get to realize its full goals. It has to compromise & Hamas has shown an ability & willingness to do so w. Fatah.

It is not a question of reading minds. These groups have a public ideology. Their leaders make statements. They exhibit despotism and have despotic allies. And who says Fatah is a force for democracy? We could adopt, if you like,
a project for both of our blogs. Pick Hizbullah or Hamas and we’ll do an extended close-up examination of what sort of ideology and goals we are dealing with.

If Hizbullah could have any kind of government it wanted, would the rulers be clerics? Would it be legal to criticize them?

Now we’re engaging in hypotheticals. Hezbollah does not control any government. I don’t know what type of government it would like to organize if it could do so. But I do know that the remainder of the country would be adamantly, even violently opposed to a Shiite Islamist government for Lebanon. There would prob. be another civil war against the notion. So Hezbollah would be hindered from realizing whatever wishes it might have to do what you believe it wants to do. Hezbollah has proven itself to be quite pragmatic in political terms & I’m certain realizes that it cannot realize such ambitions IF it has them.

Prove that Hamas won an election and that it is now the official government of the PA in some sense? That is what I meant by “major steps.”

No, you were claiming that Hamas has taken “major steps” toward realizing a radical Islamist government. That is patently false. It was democratically elected and eventually it will be democratically unelected if the opposition can ever get it’s s(^t together & stop its corruption long enough to win an election. Hamas has not imposed or attempted to impose such an Islamist state in Palestine. We can all try to look into people’s minds & try to read what their intent might be if they had their way. But the pt. is that in a democracy with a strong opposition, the ruling majority doesn’t get to realize its full goals. It has to compromise & Hamas has shown an ability & willingness to do so w. Fatah.

You are being terribly alarmist.

They are an Islamist Shi’ite party in a country where Shi’ites are a minority. The question is what sort of ideology they represent and that idoeology’s concept of how to organize a state. Are we agreed up to that point? If Hizbullah could have any kind of government it wanted, would the rulers be clerics? Would it be legal to criticize them?

They have taken major steps, at least, towards succeeding in the PA What a load of horse crap. Prove it.

Prove that Hamas won an election and that it is now the official government of the PA in some sense? That is what I meant by “major steps.” Do you want me to prove that Hamas is an Islamist group? Do you want me to prove that Islamist groups advocate totalitarian theocracy? Let’s be very clear on where we disagree.