Comments on: The S.S. St. Louis and the Human Cost of Punitive Immigration Legislation http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/ Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:35:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Jack Denver http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-99931 Jack Denver Tue, 06 May 2008 00:14:06 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-99931 As for Hull, from what I can tell (and contrary to some interpretations), rather than actively hostile, his approach to the St. Louis was what I would call "legalistic" - from his point of view this was an internal Cuban affair and the US could not meddle. Behind the scenes he was aware that there were "New York" people (meaning prominent Jews) working on putting the necessary bribes in place with the Cuban authorities and he seemed to have no problem with that. He would not admit the refugees to the US again for legal reasons - they did not have visa, there was a quota for visa, etc. The reason we know this is that the (Jewish) treasury secretary Morgenthau called Hull to discuss the situation and their calls were recorded. http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/Hull_Morgenthau_1.html http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/Hull_Morgenthau_2.html I'm not sure that a cabinet secretary today would react much differently to a similar situation, if say a ship full of Rwandans arrived off the US coast. I would however, place a lot of blame at Roosevelt's feet - as President he wielded a great deal of executive authority and could have authorized visa waivers, etc. Hull clearly did not advocate FOR the Jews but I don't see any real proof that he advocated AGAINST them either. He just saw them as foreign persons to whom the US owned nothing- it's not that he hated them, he just didn't feel he had any special responsibility toward them and no particular interest in doing anything for them or in stretching any laws on their behalf. Now this was bad enough in a time when lives were at stake (though that these people were in danger of their lives was not as clear then as it is clear in hindsight - in 1938 not even Hitler had a firm plan to exterminate all the Jews), but it's not quite the same thing as active anti-Semitism. As for Hull, from what I can tell (and contrary to some interpretations), rather than actively hostile, his approach to the St. Louis was what I would call “legalistic” - from his point of view this was an internal Cuban affair and the US could not meddle. Behind the scenes he was aware that there were “New York” people (meaning prominent Jews) working on putting the necessary bribes in place with the Cuban authorities and he seemed to have no problem with that. He would not admit the refugees to the US again for legal reasons - they did not have visa, there was a quota for visa, etc.

The reason we know this is that the (Jewish) treasury secretary Morgenthau called Hull to discuss the situation and their calls were recorded.

http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/Hull_Morgenthau_1.html
http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/Hull_Morgenthau_2.html

I’m not sure that a cabinet secretary today would react much differently to a similar situation, if say a ship full of Rwandans arrived off the US coast. I would however, place a lot of blame at Roosevelt’s feet - as President he wielded a great deal of executive authority and could have authorized visa waivers, etc. Hull clearly did not advocate FOR the Jews but I don’t see any real proof that he advocated AGAINST them either. He just saw them as foreign persons to whom the US owned nothing- it’s not that he hated them, he just didn’t feel he had any special responsibility toward them and no particular interest in doing anything for them or in stretching any laws on their behalf. Now this was bad enough in a time when lives were at stake (though that these people were in danger of their lives was not as clear then as it is clear in hindsight - in 1938 not even Hitler had a firm plan to exterminate all the Jews), but it’s not quite the same thing as active anti-Semitism.

]]> By: augusta http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-20937 augusta Mon, 21 May 2007 04:06:31 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-20937 can you tell me what started it and why did people kill each other can you tell me what started it and why did people kill each other

]]> By: Jenn http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-20754 Jenn Sat, 19 May 2007 20:57:25 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-20754 T/Y 4 PIXX IM DOIN' A HOLO. RESEARCH REPORT ON THE SS ST. LOUIS EVENT. -13, CA T/Y 4 PIXX IM DOIN’ A HOLO. RESEARCH REPORT ON THE SS ST. LOUIS EVENT.

-13, CA

]]> By: Richard Silverstein http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-3618 Richard Silverstein Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:48:18 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-3618 I'm not an expert on the FDR administration, but I do know that the State Department was generally hostile to Jewish interests during the Holocaust & stymied efforts to help Jewish refugees. I believe he was the secretary of state at that time & so I think you'd be right in what you write in yr comment. I'm removing yr mailing address fr. yr comment as I don't want anyone to use it for the wrong purpose. These days you have to be careful about personal information like that & the uses to which it may be put. I’m not an expert on the FDR administration, but I do know that the State Department was generally hostile to Jewish interests during the Holocaust & stymied efforts to help Jewish refugees. I believe he was the secretary of state at that time & so I think you’d be right in what you write in yr comment.

I’m removing yr mailing address fr. yr comment as I don’t want anyone to use it for the wrong purpose. These days you have to be careful about personal information like that & the uses to which it may be put.

]]> By: stan levine http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-3617 stan levine Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:23:04 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-3617 sir....can you tell us what roll did cordell hull have in the ss st louis tragedy! our impression was and still is, that he had the ear of fdr, and it was he who influenced fdr to ignore this grave situation....can you respond please?? SJLevine, virginia beach , va sir….can you tell us what roll did cordell hull have in the ss st louis tragedy! our impression was and still is, that he had the ear of fdr, and it was he who influenced fdr to ignore this grave situation….can you respond please?? SJLevine, virginia beach , va

]]> By: Richard Silverstein http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2838 Richard Silverstein Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:30:50 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2838 CS: Thanks for those links. I'll check them out. Dan: Thanks for that powerful story. Your grandfather did a tremendous mitzvah & the senator as well. Sometimes politicians actually CAN do the right thing. If only our latter day pols would be as compassionate in the immigration bill they pass. CS: Thanks for those links. I’ll check them out.

Dan: Thanks for that powerful story. Your grandfather did a tremendous mitzvah & the senator as well. Sometimes politicians actually CAN do the right thing. If only our latter day pols would be as compassionate in the immigration bill they pass.

]]> By: Dan Sniderman http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2833 Dan Sniderman Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:22:21 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2833 I recall this incident - like a typical American - from a movie <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075406/" rel="nofollow">The Voyage of the Damned </a> from my high school days... What a shameful incident. This topic hits very close to home for me. My grandparents and some of their cousins immigrated to Chicago in the 20's and 30's. They did their best to try to get their family out of Europe - with varying degress of success. Of particular note was one of those family stories you remember from your childhood. My "Aunt Yollie" who I have some distant memories of this sweet woman who was both Jewish and Mentally Retarded. I'll have to get a recap of the story from my mother - I don't remember all the details - but they were having serious problems getting her papers until one relative (I think my grandfather) realized that a Senator (not sure if it was a State Senator or US Senator) played tennis regularly at the same city park every weekend morning. My relative was bold enough to approach him and introduce himself and ask for assistance - which he got. I can only imagine what would have happened had she stayed in Europe (the city they lived in is in current day Slovakia). The family members that stayed behind all ended up in Auschwitz... I recall this incident - like a typical American - from a movie The Voyage of the Damned from my high school days… What a shameful incident.

This topic hits very close to home for me. My grandparents and some of their cousins immigrated to Chicago in the 20’s and 30’s. They did their best to try to get their family out of Europe - with varying degress of success.

Of particular note was one of those family stories you remember from your childhood. My “Aunt Yollie” who I have some distant memories of this sweet woman who was both Jewish and Mentally Retarded. I’ll have to get a recap of the story from my mother - I don’t remember all the details - but they were having serious problems getting her papers until one relative (I think my grandfather) realized that a Senator (not sure if it was a State Senator or US Senator) played tennis regularly at the same city park every weekend morning.

My relative was bold enough to approach him and introduce himself and ask for assistance - which he got. I can only imagine what would have happened had she stayed in Europe (the city they lived in is in current day Slovakia). The family members that stayed behind all ended up in Auschwitz…

]]> By: cs http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2831 cs Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:12:23 +0000 http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/04/12/the-human-cost-of-punitive-immigration-legislation/#comment-2831 Thank you for sharing this story, Richard. I knew about FDR's refusal to bomb the rail lines but not about the plight of the <i>SS St Louis</i> and its passengers. Pachacutec published a wonderful <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/10/el-sueno-americano-the-american-dream/" rel="nofollow">post at FireDogLake</a> the other day about the immigrant experience, the demonstrations and the need for a sane, compassionate policy to address the issues we're facing today, including <a href="http://pointers.audiovideoweb.com/stcasx/ny60win16148/hispanic/Frank_Sharry-1.wmv/play.asx" rel="nofollow">this auido link</a> on how good policy can serve the interests of immigrants and labor, too. Thought I;d share it with you and your readers . . . thanks again for your post. Thank you for sharing this story, Richard. I knew about FDR’s refusal to bomb the rail lines but not about the plight of the SS St Louis and its passengers. Pachacutec published a wonderful post at FireDogLake the other day about the immigrant experience, the demonstrations and the need for a sane, compassionate policy to address the issues we’re facing today, including this auido link on how good policy can serve the interests of immigrants and labor, too. Thought I;d share it with you and your readers . . . thanks again for your post.

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