There is no end of those who criticize Islam and its imams for their supposed hatred against Israel and the west. One look at Little Green Footballs or even the comments threads at this site will provide a plethora of such attacks: “Show me an imam who’s ever denounced an Islamic terror attack. And even if you find one, I don’t trust him because they say one thing to a western audience and another to a Muslim one.” That’s the tenor of the attack.
Such attitudes toward Islam are unfair and anti-Muslim. I’ve argued here against such individuals saying that Islam is as varied a religion as Judaism or Christianity. It has its share of hateful extremists zealots as does our own religion. No religion should be entirely judged based on the views or actions of a minority (as the Islamic fundamentalists are).
That is why I was delighted to read at the Common Ground News Service about the 2nd Annual Conference of Rabbis and Imams, sponsored by Hommes de Parole which concluded on March 22nd in Seville, Spain. This is an excerpt from the closing statement and it should be read and pondered by anyone who doubts the sincerity of Muslims in denouncing terror and embracing tolerance:
Imams and rabbis talk peace at world conference (photo: Homme de Parole)We…affirm that contrary to widespread misrepresentation, there is no inherent conflict between Islam and Judaism, on the contrary. While modern politics has regrettably impacted negatively upon the relationship, our two religions share the most fundamental values of faith in the One Almighty whose name is Peace, who is merciful, compassionate and just; and who calls on us human beings to manifest these values in our lives and to advance them in relation to all persons whose lives and dignity are sacred. Therefore we…deplore bloodshed or violence in the name of any ideology everywhere. Especially when such is perpetrated in the name of religion it is a desecration of religion, itself and the gravest offense against the Holy Name of the Creator.
Thus, in addition to calling upon all our co-religionists to respect all human life, dignity and rights, to promote peace and justice; we call upon them and the governments of the world and international institutions to show respect for the attachments and symbols of all religions, as well as their holy sites, houses of worship and cemeteries, particularly in the Holy Land, due to its special sensitivity.
Accordingly, we condemn any negative representation of these, let alone any desecration, Heaven forbid. Similarly, we condemn any incitement against a faith or people, let alone any call for their elimination, and we urge authorities to do likewise.
We recognize that there is widespread misrepresentation of our religions, – one in the other’s community as well as in the world at large.
We affirm therefore the urgent need for truthful and respectful education about each other’s faith and tradition in our respective communities and schools; and call upon those responsible to promote such essential education for peaceful co-existence.
Solemnly we pledge ourselves to…continue to seek out one another to build bridges of respect, hope and friendship, to combat incitement and hostility, to overcome all barriers and obstacles, to reinforce mutual trust, serving the noble goal of universal peace especially in the land that is holy to us all.
According to the authors of the Common Ground report, the co-executive directors of Children of Abraham, there was some tension between the Palestinian and Israeli delegations at the urgent request by the former to place the question of Israel and Palestine at the top of the group’s agenda. The “black hats” (their words, not mine) were opposed to this and wished the conference to address solely religious matters. While I wasn’t there, I’d say that a middle ground position is necessary here. To omit the political question is to pretend the 900 lb. gorilla is not sitting in the room right next to you. But to get mired in political debate alone on this question risks forfeiting the great good that could come from such meetings. As the writers state:
…Just as most Muslims have their passion for Palestine and most Jews have their passion for Israel, so we all have a complex religious identity that is severely skewed in the conversations between our two communities that focus solely on the political situation in Israel/Palestine.
“…Supposed hatred against Israel and the west”? Supossed? Wow, how perceptive! Maybe Hitler was a nazi, also….
How can I say this kindly…. I can’t, so here it goes: You are a fool if you think there is any common ground that Muslims and non-Muslims can occupy together in peace. That is, if we are talking real, sincere Muslims. Yes, we can live with the run-of-the-mill, average, not-so-serious, Joe ‘have a beer once in a while’ Muslim.
Remember the old “House of war” and “Kill the infidels wherever you find them” stuff? That is what the real Islam is all about.
Until Muslims respect and tolerate others where they dominate; until they give the same rights they enjoy to non-Muslims (no more and no less); until they accept freedom of speech as a guiding principle, there can be no harmony.
You will notice that this ‘Common ground’ conference was not held in a Muslim country. Does that tell you anything? Can you do the math?
Let me give you alitmus test to determine is a Muslim wants peace and harmony. It is really simple. Just ask him if he understands that the hadiths give many accounts of horrible, dispicable, evil events in the life of Mr Mohammed. We are not talking parking tickets or stealing chewing gum, either. The facts are that Islamic writings tell us that Islam’s dear prophet murdered, tortured, enslaved and raped. Yet, Muslims consider him a great moral example (Mercy for all mankind, bla, bla, bla) and someone to emulate. Figure out, if you can, what that means. Just ask any Muslim about these things, ask him/her if Mohammed was really a good person. If he/she says refuses to condemn those vile actions, then he/she is dishonest. Period.
Have you ever found a Muslim that can be honest about their dear leader? I haven’t – and believe me I have tried. Only once have I found a Muslim who admitted that the stories were “very problematic.” So, if they can’t be honest about the simple things, why should we believe them on the complicated things? Do not actions speak louder than words?
The fact is that Islam is a religion of hate and anger. The Islamic turmoil and terror we see today is nothing but Muslims doing what their dear leader and prophet did 1400 years ago.
Muslims need to hear the truth, not a bunch of sugar coated words. That is the only way that there can be peace. I am pessimistic. It is going to get much worse and a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt. People like you and sites like this are not only ignoring the problem, they are adding gasoline to the fire.
Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses.
John kactuz aka kactuzkid
Have you ever even met a Muslim?
My Synagogue is located in a very ethnically and culturally diverse neighborhood on the North-side of Chicago and we have very close relationship with several Muslim organizations nearby. Several Imans were in attendence at a ceremony when our new Rabbi was installed in 2004.
I (and I’m sure my Rabbi and other members of our congregation) were HONORED to have them there.
No, John Arthur, it is you who are the fool by presuming you know anything about Islam or Muslims.
And you only confirm yr ignorance with this statement:
I don’t know about math, but I can tell you you don’t know shit from shinola when it comes to Islam.
Do you even have a clue WHY the conference was held in Seville?? No, of course you don’t because you don’t know the first thing about Islamic history or culture. Spain was THE primary locus of the Islamic world in the early middle ages (until 1492). During the time that the Moors ruled Spain, Jews & Muslim got along fairly well together. Jews played prominent roles in government, banking, and in the cultural elite. Jews worshipped fairly freely (much more freely than in Christian lands).
It was only when the Christians drove the Muslims drove the Moors out in 1492 that things went to hell for Jews (the Inquisition followed). So, pray, John Arthur, perhaps you can explain to us why it was that the Muslims treated Jews relatively well in Spain and the Christians treated us like dogs? Oh, I see, there may be other religions who treat minorities within their midst worse than Muslims?! Whaddaya know.
And if we want to talk about murdering, pillaging & raping why don’t we also throw in the Christians who’ve been doing precisely that to Jews for about the last millenium or so & in the name of their beloved Christ (Crusades, Cossack pogroms, Russian pogroms, etc.). Christians have killed hundreds, perhaps thousands of times more Jews throughout history than any Muslim. How do you account for that, Mr. Arthur?
No, the fact is you are an idiot who knows shit about Islam (did I already say that?) & you keep revealing your ignorance every time you open yr mouth on the subject.
I’M not sure if the Rabbi and Imams thing is for real but all I know is there is one”” common thread” between all these events below …
Conflict with buhists,christains,Hindus,She and suni muslims in Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, nrthn china.lebenon, Iraq, India, kasmir, chechyna in the streets of Paris and Sydney, Pakistan, algeria, darfur and many more countries,
Murder of Kennedy
Attempted murder of the Pope
Suicide bombings and terror attacks in Africa, ship Cole, Saudi Arabia US army base, Jewish community centre in Sth America, suicide attacks in WTC first time ,NY 9/11,Bali [Twice} Jakarta Aust embassy, Madrid, London & every day arrests of suspected terrorists and their accomplices all over the world from London to Sydney. The cost of insurance the inconvieniance of security checking at airports, public places, Olympics, etc., kidnappings and beheadings, suicide attacks and ethnic fighting…. are all these events because of the Israelii Palestinian war????.i think the rabbis should mind their own business this is a problem that only Muslims can solve if they wish, rabbis and we in the west cannot force arabs and muslims to first get along with each other shea and sunni get along with Hindus, budhists, christains and jews or act civilised how can a group of naive rabbis have any effect ..I suggest the rabbis go and sit with the families of victims of suicide attacks on the buses in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, perhaps they should visit a hospital where the survivors of a suicide attack sit with our their eyes or limbs because of thenails , nuts n bolts the Palestinians place inside their bombs to inflict maximum damage to human beings, perhaps they can pray that these survivors will not be in pain for ever …
More mind-numbing stupidity fr. Mr. Burd.
And you don’t think that I or a student of the history of religion could not match ea. one of these so-called Muslim depredations with examples fr. many, if not most of the world’s religions?
And speaking of Shia-Sunni sectarian hatred…you think that none of the other religions have witnessed such horrors? During the Middle Ages, the Albigensians were exterminated by forces of the Church for their allegedly heretical views. The Talmud contains a famous story saying that a feud between two brothers caused the destruction of the 2nd Temple. This story has become emblematic for Jews who use it to warn of the danger of inter-religious strife within Judaism.
Muslims are no different than any other religion in terms of these issues. Not better, not worse. Basically, the same because we’re all human and we all have our vices.
And your presumption that the rabbis who attended this conference have NOT visited victims of terror in hospital only further confirms you as an utter fool. There were Israeli rabbis in attendance & you can hardly be a rabbi there w/o coming face to face with terror and counseling the victims.
I too know terror victims. You clearly have never heard of Parent’s Circle, a group composed of those who’ve lost family members to terror on BOTH SIDES, Israeli & Palestinian. This group really spoils your scheme of things, doesn’t it? Because in the view of dolts like you, a victim of terror can have nothing to say to the other side. But Yitzchak Frankenthal and his fellow terror survivors prove you dead wrong.
Richard – forget the middle ages – how about the 1980’s? I was talking about my reluctance to visit Israel (due to my own concerns of personal safety) with an English pal of mine. He explained a principal motivation for why he moved from London to Minneapolis was because of the constant bomb scares. You want a good example of sectarian violence with good ole White Christians look no farther the Northern Ireland.
Or how about the Croats and the Serbs? (let’s dial it up to the 90’s!) Anyone willing to deny that Orthodox v Catholic doesn’t play a role there?
How many wars were fought in Europe between Catholic and Protestant countries primarily (or even exclusively) due to issues of religion?
How desperate and naive we are to dig so deep to find examples of similar barbarity to what Muslims and arabs are perpetrating on each other and the infidels all over the world. I guess if this was the 1930’s and 40,s you would be saying not all Germans are nazis and come up with others in history that have perpetrated similar barbarity to the nazis …wake up guys this is the year 2006 you can only compare Arab & Muslim terrorists to ETA or IRA if you really must find other examples and the murders they perpetrate are all in their own back yards we don’t see Irish or Basques blowing up woman in and children all over the world or taking their fight to Irish or spanish living inotgher parts of the world like Arabs and Muslims to against Jews and americans where ever they live or murdering RED Cross, UN and Aid workers like in Iraq, beheadings and filming them to show eager Arab and Muslim audiences on world wide Arab and Muslim TV…you guys are so desperate to appease and justify The atrocities Arabs and Muslims are causing now in our life time and most definataly for the long term as this clash of cultures will go on for years to come, this is nothing like the cold war even ETA and IRA have come to the conclusion that barbarity doesn’t help their cause and laid down their arms and even they have defined grieviances , not trying to spread their religion or political beiefls by force on others around the world
I can assure you if the Israelis give the Palestinians and Arabs what they want Jerusalem, Haifa and tel Aviv murderous islamists will still carry out their barbarity in PHillipines, Pakistan, Iraq, lebenon, Indoensia, Kasmir Chechyna, India, Thailand; algeria; and home grown Islamic fanatics will still plot their ghastly murders against their hosts in Sydney, London, MIchigan and Paris there no doubt about that…
Dan: Right you are, Dan. Yr examples are far more current & quite relevant to this discussion. I’m a defrocked PhD in Jewish studies & you can tell that fr. my examples of religious intolerance.
You’ll have to forgive me, Mr. Burd. History is a discipline that is dear to my heart (though apparently not yrs). In fact, during the Passover seder we intone: “In ea. generation a person must view himself as if he was freed from bondage in Egypt.” In other words, traditionally for Jews there is no diff. bet. an event that happened 2,000 hears ago and one that happened last week. We are commanded to see ancient events as if they could have happened to us. That makes history a lot more lively subject. Perhaps you should be reading up on your seder liturgy?
The Irish and the Basques are a nation, not a religion. While there are Irish & Basques living throughout the world, their fight is with their respective national oppressors. Hence very little terrorism outside the British Isles or Spain.
Arabs and Muslims view these issue through both a religious & political prism. In addition, their populations are spread much more widely across the world. It is no wonder that this issue has become a world-wide one that is not limited to one particular nation or even region.
I assure you no Arab would see things as you do & I sympathize far more w. their view than yrs since you have no idea what the intentions of Arabs are. And yr ‘interpretation’ of those intentions is laughable & pathetic. They would view their militancy as a defense of their religious and cultural beliefs from the depredations of oppressors like Israel (in the case of Palestine) or the U.S. (in the case of Iraq & soon to be Iran if we bomb).
I do find it entertaining when commenters here betray their delusional, conspiracy theories about the dark races trying to destroy our way of life. It must be comforting to have this all figured out–isn’t it, Mr. Burd?
I’m afraid though that the rest of us, poor deluded souls that we are in yr way of thinking, have a bit harder time trying to actually sort through these issues as they’re not so black & white to us. But hey enjoy those delusions!
As far as I am aware the war against terror which not only the United states but most other civilised countries around the world { obviously that leaves out many} are fighting is against Arab and muslim fanatics& extremsits not Jews [either left or right] not budhists not hindus not christains or hare crrishnas perhaps you should take your head out of your back side and read the news and see what are facts are on the ground.
Precisely as you say this “war” is against Muslim extremists, NOT against the entire religion of Islam, nor against even the majority of Muslims. But rather against a rather small minority of Muslims. And I’ve argued elsewhere here, every religion has its share of nutcases who commit mayhem in the name of their Creator. So guess what your outrageous falsifications of Islam prove? Only that it is a religion like all others on this earth–full of spiritual seekers, gentle souls, the intolerant and even wild-eyed radical fools.
Only nuts like you conflate Muslims as a whole with Muslim extremists turning it into one horrid mess of slime.
Its only a minority as the mantra goes its only a minority so what is this minority 10 % 15 % 25% what have you done a surveyof all the rabs and muslioms in the world how do you come to this conclusion where are the facts to back your Minorty theory up with, let me enlighten you that it onlt took 20 of these minorty to cause the twin twoers to come down only a few dozen in total to murder innocent civllians in Madrid,bali and london come on get real the nazis were only a minority of germans look what a so called minority can do and the instability these maniacs cause around the world…
Ia small percentage of 1.5 billion is a heck of a lot of maniacs so you can keep mantra going about this fictisous minorty but facts on ground clearly show us that in Iraq palestine paris sydeny and beyond the minorty is dangerous..I guess your ”its onnly a minorty mantra wont go down so wel with the family of victims of these maniacs around the world will it ..why dont you think through what you say before you just parrot fashion what the muslim 7 arab lobby tell you to say
No fella, that’s not how we play around here. YOU are the one who made a wholesale claim against the entire Muslim religion that they were all a bunch of loony fanatics. It’s you who have to prove your ridiculous claim…not I who have to prove a minority are behind such fringe lunacy.
Lord, save us from would-be historians. Fully 33% of Nazis voted the Nazi into power in 1933. By the time Hitler got around to declaring war and dragging the world into hell for five yrs. certainly a majority of Germans agreed with his views & policies. Only a nation united in its determination to rid the world of the Jewish race could’ve accomplished the “great things” which it did on that score.
A paltry minority of Muslims are not going to cause serious or significant damage to western culture or religions. Certainly, a small number of loons can kill & maim many innocent people. Certainly they must be fought with all our strength (but within the bounds of our nation’s civil liberties). But can they bring this nation or any non-Muslim nation to its knees? Hardly. All of yr. moaning & groaning to the contrary is pitiful and vapid.
In order to outlaw the barbarity of capital punishment would you have me first persuade the families of murder victims that capital punishment has got to go?? That’s be a ridiculous & impossible task.
No, to combat Arab terror we don’t first have to persuade victims of violence that Arabs are “good people.” We have to insist that Arabs themselves address the issue amongst themselves. And we have to address some of the root causes of Islamic terrorism that emanate from ourselves: like our bestial war in Iraq and the ongoing mayhem that is the Israeli occupation. Ending both of these will go a good way toward lessening, if not ending Arab terror. Will the end of a war and occupation entirely end such terror? Perhaps not. There will always be a few loony stragglers who wander off the “reservation.” I don’t expect perfection from the Arabs. I only expect them to keep their own house in relatively good order.
Only a true idiot would write something as dumbass stupid as that. I don’t take my orders fr. anyone, bub. So cut out that shit. If you want to sink to the gutter you’d better go elsewhere to do it. You’re about a centimeter fr. being cut off entirely here.
””’Like our
bestial war in Iraq and the ongoing mayhem that is the Israeli occupation””
I apologise your right once we get the Americans out of Iraq so the shea and Sunni will finish each other off and we move the Jews out of tel Aviv maybe back to Poland all the Muslims that are fighting the Hindus in Kashmir and India and Muslims fighting the Buddhists in Northern china and Thailand and the Muslims killing the Christians in Pakistan and Lebanon and all the Shea killing the Sunni Muslim in Iraq and Pakistan the arabs will stop slaughtering the balcks in Darfur along with the 30 other conflicts around the world invloving your minority muslims and arabs will all suddenly become peace lovinbg monks and al conflicts will cease..
Once the problems in Iraq and Israel are solved the Muslims and Arabs in Sydney London and Paris and beyond will stop conspiring to blow up their fellow human beings. Yeh Richo and Hamas tomorrow will put down their arms like the IRA and ETA.I don’t know where you get your information from but perhaps from Disneyland!
Blah, blah, blah. You repeat yourself ad nauseum.
And two words of advice: “Spell Checker”
To me, a conference like this makes perfect sense, given how much Rabbis and Imams have in common: They both have beards, wear glasses and little caps, and never pick up the check.
Silverstein – I hope sometime in the future to meet you personally – I have something I want to give you….
Edwin: I take that as a veiled–or not so veiled threat. Please do be more specific so I can report you to your ISP (Cablevision Systems, Norwalk, CT–I have your IP address fella) & any other relevant authorities.
kiss my ass
How disappointing. I was hoping for something a little more heroic & directly threatening so I could report you to the authorities. And all you could muster was: “kiss my ass.” Sad, very sad.
What a darling lad you are. Did your mother teach you to talk potty mouth or did you learn that at Little Green Footballs or perhaps Jewlicious?
You’re banned. But it was so nice having you while you were here. Now maybe you can crawl on over to another slime hole like Little Green Footballs where all of you slimy slugs do your ritual mating wriggles before going off to track yr slime across sites like mine.
Excellent series of postings.
Why is it when the dregs of humanity become “experts” on things that had previously been beneath their purview, they usually have that extremely negative take on it?
What I mean to say is, why do the commenters wax so malignly about Islam when their knowledge is based on a few scraps of information fed them by their masters?
It is a puzzle.