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	<title>Comments on: Ken Schram: Public Breastfeeding is Like Urinating in Public</title>
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	<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/</link>
	<description>Essays on politics, culture and ideas about Israeli-Arab peace and world music</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jacey</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-1614</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-1614</guid>
		<description>I'm fascinated by this discussion, having been in DC this summer soon after Barbara made her comments. Here in Europe it is a pretty hot topic too, though Barbara might be disappointed to know that not too many people know who she is. Ken Schram is virtually unknown also.

Patti, nobody looks down on you for doing the best you can for your babies, thats all any mom can do. As a 'La Leche League activist" I support every mothers right to have the best information possible on infant feeding, and every mothers right to make her choice based on that information. And if you cannot feed your baby yourself for health reasons, that does not make you any less "good" as a mom. Nobody is handing out medals here!

Richard, I agree with your last paragraph about educating  the general public, and I think that is the really important thing in all of this. Mothers who choose to breastfeed should be encouraged and supported and not denigrated. No mom should be made to feel responsible for other people's hang-ups!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fascinated by this discussion, having been in DC this summer soon after Barbara made her comments. Here in Europe it is a pretty hot topic too, though Barbara might be disappointed to know that not too many people know who she is. Ken Schram is virtually unknown also.</p>
<p>Patti, nobody looks down on you for doing the best you can for your babies, thats all any mom can do. As a &#8216;La Leche League activist&#8221; I support every mothers right to have the best information possible on infant feeding, and every mothers right to make her choice based on that information. And if you cannot feed your baby yourself for health reasons, that does not make you any less &#8220;good&#8221; as a mom. Nobody is handing out medals here!</p>
<p>Richard, I agree with your last paragraph about educating  the general public, and I think that is the really important thing in all of this. Mothers who choose to breastfeed should be encouraged and supported and not denigrated. No mom should be made to feel responsible for other people&#8217;s hang-ups!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>I stand corrected about Ms. Goertzen's medical history.  I read the information in an online forum &#38; didn't verify it.  However, my post made no reference to whether or not she breastfed her babies &#38; I wasn't claiming that she did.

I think a phrase like "why do so many of you look down on women who did not breastfeed" is a dicey supposition because it assumes that I &#38; every commenter are La Leche League activists--which I'm not &#38; I'd guess that most of the commenters here aren't either.  I would never look down on a mother for not brestfeeding if she couldn't do so.  I wouldn't look down on any decision a mother made in that regard, even if she could breastfeed &#38; wasn't doing so.  Patti, you never have to apologize to me (though I can't speak for others) for a decision that was yours to make in the first place.

What I object to is people (especially for media figures like Schram &#38; Walters) who express displeasure with mothers who do breastfeed.  That is a wholly untenable position especially for someone who has the ear of the viewing public.

Regarding another portion of your comment about women's "impurity" during their menstrual cycles: one of the more troubling aspects of my own Jewish tradition is the BIblical custom (from the days of wandering in the desert) that women having their period had to remain outside the Israelite encampment (I think for 7 days).  But I'd guess that most ancient civilizations &#38; traditions had similar beliefs.

I do think you underestimate the impact that the bigoted opinion of a figure like Barbara Walters has on the public.  When she expresses disgust with a breastfeeding mother sitting next to her on a plane, tens of millions of people (including young pregnant women who've never breastfed before) hear it, take notice &#38; possible act accordingly.  Yes, Barbara is from a different time &#38; she's entitled to her benighted personal opinions.  But she's not entitled to spread them on the air.  Once she does that she's fair game.

I completely disagree when you say that those protesting Walters' "aren't doing a thing to change the others [by which I assume you mean Schram &#38; Walters].  Besides, changing Walters' &#38; Schram's minds isn't at all the purpose of the protest.  The purpose is to educate the general public that breastfeeding is good &#38; that no public figure has the right to denigrate it.  The NYC protest I'd say did that admirably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stand corrected about Ms. Goertzen&#8217;s medical history.  I read the information in an online forum &amp; didn&#8217;t verify it.  However, my post made no reference to whether or not she breastfed her babies &amp; I wasn&#8217;t claiming that she did.</p>
<p>I think a phrase like &#8220;why do so many of you look down on women who did not breastfeed&#8221; is a dicey supposition because it assumes that I &amp; every commenter are La Leche League activists&#8211;which I&#8217;m not &amp; I&#8217;d guess that most of the commenters here aren&#8217;t either.  I would never look down on a mother for not brestfeeding if she couldn&#8217;t do so.  I wouldn&#8217;t look down on any decision a mother made in that regard, even if she could breastfeed &amp; wasn&#8217;t doing so.  Patti, you never have to apologize to me (though I can&#8217;t speak for others) for a decision that was yours to make in the first place.</p>
<p>What I object to is people (especially for media figures like Schram &amp; Walters) who express displeasure with mothers who do breastfeed.  That is a wholly untenable position especially for someone who has the ear of the viewing public.</p>
<p>Regarding another portion of your comment about women&#8217;s &#8220;impurity&#8221; during their menstrual cycles: one of the more troubling aspects of my own Jewish tradition is the BIblical custom (from the days of wandering in the desert) that women having their period had to remain outside the Israelite encampment (I think for 7 days).  But I&#8217;d guess that most ancient civilizations &amp; traditions had similar beliefs.</p>
<p>I do think you underestimate the impact that the bigoted opinion of a figure like Barbara Walters has on the public.  When she expresses disgust with a breastfeeding mother sitting next to her on a plane, tens of millions of people (including young pregnant women who&#8217;ve never breastfed before) hear it, take notice &amp; possible act accordingly.  Yes, Barbara is from a different time &amp; she&#8217;s entitled to her benighted personal opinions.  But she&#8217;s not entitled to spread them on the air.  Once she does that she&#8217;s fair game.</p>
<p>I completely disagree when you say that those protesting Walters&#8217; &#8220;aren&#8217;t doing a thing to change the others [by which I assume you mean Schram &amp; Walters].  Besides, changing Walters&#8217; &amp; Schram&#8217;s minds isn&#8217;t at all the purpose of the protest.  The purpose is to educate the general public that breastfeeding is good &amp; that no public figure has the right to denigrate it.  The NYC protest I&#8217;d say did that admirably.</p>
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		<title>By: Patti</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-1284</link>
		<dc:creator>Patti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-1284</guid>
		<description>Breastfeeding is fine, though I prefer the stance of CLSH. And if in a room with a breastfeeding mom, fine. But unless it is a close relative or friend, I would not be comfortable seated as closely as you are in an airplane. While it is nowhere near urinating, it is a level of intimacy.

As for Kathi Goertzen, coworker of Mr Schram mentioned above, she is not a breast cancer survivor. She had a non malignant brain tumor, which is monitored twice a year still, and the surgery to remove could've effected her vision, but other than a slight drooping of one eyelid, similar to a very mild stroke effect, she looks as good as she ever did. 

And while Ms Goertzen and her husband have 2 daughters, I don't believe she ever made public whether she nursed or bottlefed.

On one last note, I support you lactation expert's right to choice, but I would like to know why so many of you look down on women like me who were not able to do so because of health problems, which would've resulted in my babies being malnourished. I was giving them the best start I could, but to this day find people who expect me to apologize for not being able to do it the "right" way.

And, I believe the modesty thing goes a bit farther back than the past century. more like several hundred years. It hasn't been all that long since pregnancy itself was not an appropriate topic of conversation, and a bit further back, women were confined toward the end of their term, and even during monthly cycles. Not saying it was right, but it is true.

Can we all agree to just be happy to have these babies, and to have choices, and not react to every little thing. No one is stopping you from nursing in public, they are giving an opinion. It only becomes a fight if you are silly enough to take the bait. Sit back and do what you please, and let's cut  Barbara some slack, she was raised in a different time, she is in her 70's, people! And Elisabeth is very pro-breast, but she said she prefers the modest approach. Just leave it at to each his own, and spend your energy on your babies, you can influence their lives. You aren't doing a thing to change the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Breastfeeding is fine, though I prefer the stance of CLSH. And if in a room with a breastfeeding mom, fine. But unless it is a close relative or friend, I would not be comfortable seated as closely as you are in an airplane. While it is nowhere near urinating, it is a level of intimacy.</p>
<p>As for Kathi Goertzen, coworker of Mr Schram mentioned above, she is not a breast cancer survivor. She had a non malignant brain tumor, which is monitored twice a year still, and the surgery to remove could&#8217;ve effected her vision, but other than a slight drooping of one eyelid, similar to a very mild stroke effect, she looks as good as she ever did. </p>
<p>And while Ms Goertzen and her husband have 2 daughters, I don&#8217;t believe she ever made public whether she nursed or bottlefed.</p>
<p>On one last note, I support you lactation expert&#8217;s right to choice, but I would like to know why so many of you look down on women like me who were not able to do so because of health problems, which would&#8217;ve resulted in my babies being malnourished. I was giving them the best start I could, but to this day find people who expect me to apologize for not being able to do it the &#8220;right&#8221; way.</p>
<p>And, I believe the modesty thing goes a bit farther back than the past century. more like several hundred years. It hasn&#8217;t been all that long since pregnancy itself was not an appropriate topic of conversation, and a bit further back, women were confined toward the end of their term, and even during monthly cycles. Not saying it was right, but it is true.</p>
<p>Can we all agree to just be happy to have these babies, and to have choices, and not react to every little thing. No one is stopping you from nursing in public, they are giving an opinion. It only becomes a fight if you are silly enough to take the bait. Sit back and do what you please, and let&#8217;s cut  Barbara some slack, she was raised in a different time, she is in her 70&#8217;s, people! And Elisabeth is very pro-breast, but she said she prefers the modest approach. Just leave it at to each his own, and spend your energy on your babies, you can influence their lives. You aren&#8217;t doing a thing to change the others.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-1175</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-1175</guid>
		<description>The women that were so incredibly rude to him were wrong... possibly even more so than he was for writing that. They showed a great deal of immaturity, disrespect, and ignorance in saying such things and just sunk down to his level. I wrote to him but instead I wrote to him about the facts regarding public breastfeeding and why it is not always possible to be completely modest. Educating someone accomplishes more than name-calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The women that were so incredibly rude to him were wrong&#8230; possibly even more so than he was for writing that. They showed a great deal of immaturity, disrespect, and ignorance in saying such things and just sunk down to his level. I wrote to him but instead I wrote to him about the facts regarding public breastfeeding and why it is not always possible to be completely modest. Educating someone accomplishes more than name-calling.</p>
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		<title>By: Breast is best</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-1089</link>
		<dc:creator>Breast is best</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-1089</guid>
		<description>Get over yourselves, you cannot compare pissing in public to breast feeding in public!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get over yourselves, you cannot compare pissing in public to breast feeding in public!</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-871</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-871</guid>
		<description>What a nim-nod!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a nim-nod!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-863</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-863</guid>
		<description>Jane Doe: Now that was funny about telling Ken Schram to "cover up."  In fact, his whole person offends my sense of decency (if not modesty).  Why doesn't he just go shut up &#38; wear a chador somewhere?  I don't find anything about the man appealing, neither of his mind nor his body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane Doe: Now that was funny about telling Ken Schram to &#8220;cover up.&#8221;  In fact, his whole person offends my sense of decency (if not modesty).  Why doesn&#8217;t he just go shut up &amp; wear a chador somewhere?  I don&#8217;t find anything about the man appealing, neither of his mind nor his body.</p>
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		<title>By: CLSH</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-862</link>
		<dc:creator>CLSH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-862</guid>
		<description>I do admit that I got a good laugh from reading all of these comments.  I wonder if everyone who has posted here is from the US.  Well, I am.  And I am surely a breastfeeding advocate.  My career circles around breastfeeding.  All of my children have been breastfed exclusively, until it was time to offer solids.  No formula and very rarely, expressed milk in a cup.  All of my children have been breastfed into toddlerhood and most even beyond.  

So, that all said and done, I believe in discreet nursing...for me.   That was how I did it.  I didn't use a blanket coverup because I always felt that it attracted more attention.  And I didn't want to attract attention.  I just wanted to feed my babies.  And I wanted to be comfortable doing it.  I wasn't one to "whip it out".  I was even able to teach a 20 minute class sitting about 5 feet from the participants and they didn't even know what I was doing.  they thought the baby was asleep.  

Okay, so one day I was in the middle of the pool club, and this woman I know "whipped it out" of her bikini to feed her baby.  And she was VERY large on top.  I do admit I was QUITE surprised.  But I remained composed and continued our conversation. I remember thinking however, "I CAN'T believe she's feeding her baby like this".  BUT as long as she was comfortable, so was I.  However, don't ask ME to feed that way.  

Maybe in another country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do admit that I got a good laugh from reading all of these comments.  I wonder if everyone who has posted here is from the US.  Well, I am.  And I am surely a breastfeeding advocate.  My career circles around breastfeeding.  All of my children have been breastfed exclusively, until it was time to offer solids.  No formula and very rarely, expressed milk in a cup.  All of my children have been breastfed into toddlerhood and most even beyond.  </p>
<p>So, that all said and done, I believe in discreet nursing&#8230;for me.   That was how I did it.  I didn&#8217;t use a blanket coverup because I always felt that it attracted more attention.  And I didn&#8217;t want to attract attention.  I just wanted to feed my babies.  And I wanted to be comfortable doing it.  I wasn&#8217;t one to &#8220;whip it out&#8221;.  I was even able to teach a 20 minute class sitting about 5 feet from the participants and they didn&#8217;t even know what I was doing.  they thought the baby was asleep.  </p>
<p>Okay, so one day I was in the middle of the pool club, and this woman I know &#8220;whipped it out&#8221; of her bikini to feed her baby.  And she was VERY large on top.  I do admit I was QUITE surprised.  But I remained composed and continued our conversation. I remember thinking however, &#8220;I CAN&#8217;T believe she&#8217;s feeding her baby like this&#8221;.  BUT as long as she was comfortable, so was I.  However, don&#8217;t ask ME to feed that way.  </p>
<p>Maybe in another country.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Doe</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Doe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-861</guid>
		<description>It's odd that we feel it is culturally acceptable to tell  women and babies to cover up in public but no one would dare to suggest that Ken Schram cover his face in public, eating or not.  We are all so stuck in our cultural point of view.  There is no reason I shouldn't be able to demand that Ken Schram cover his head while he's out in public, if looking at his face offends my sense of modesty.  Maybe his lips are too suggestive, or his cheeks are too sensual.  Maybe the sight of his tongue darting out to catch a bit of ketchup off his sandwich reminds me of something that happened in the bedroom, and so he should hide it.  Since we get to reinvent modesty every five years anyway, why not?  Remember when it was legs ("limbs") and NOT breasts, that had to be covered up for modesty?  Why not men's faces, now?  Or Ken Schram's left eye?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s odd that we feel it is culturally acceptable to tell  women and babies to cover up in public but no one would dare to suggest that Ken Schram cover his face in public, eating or not.  We are all so stuck in our cultural point of view.  There is no reason I shouldn&#8217;t be able to demand that Ken Schram cover his head while he&#8217;s out in public, if looking at his face offends my sense of modesty.  Maybe his lips are too suggestive, or his cheeks are too sensual.  Maybe the sight of his tongue darting out to catch a bit of ketchup off his sandwich reminds me of something that happened in the bedroom, and so he should hide it.  Since we get to reinvent modesty every five years anyway, why not?  Remember when it was legs (&#8221;limbs&#8221;) and NOT breasts, that had to be covered up for modesty?  Why not men&#8217;s faces, now?  Or Ken Schram&#8217;s left eye?</p>
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		<title>By: Molly</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/10/ken-schram-public-breastfeeding-is-like-urinating-in-public/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/?p=780#comment-852</guid>
		<description>"Why not use a light blanket to cover up?"  I know it sounds easy and simple but for many babies it's not.  Notice I said babies and not women, since it should be about our helpless, vulnerable, precious infants.  When I try to breastfeed with something over my baby he pulls off and fusses, repeatedly, until I give up and do it his way.  In the end, it creates a much bigger scene.

I'm hoping that all this attention to the "issue" of breastfeeding will create awareness and pride and in the end we'll come out ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why not use a light blanket to cover up?&#8221;  I know it sounds easy and simple but for many babies it&#8217;s not.  Notice I said babies and not women, since it should be about our helpless, vulnerable, precious infants.  When I try to breastfeed with something over my baby he pulls off and fusses, repeatedly, until I give up and do it his way.  In the end, it creates a much bigger scene.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping that all this attention to the &#8220;issue&#8221; of breastfeeding will create awareness and pride and in the end we&#8217;ll come out ahead.</p>
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