The Israelis did not want the U.S. spying on them plain & simple. That’s why they attacked the Liberty. So if the U.S. were to follow Israel’s example, instead of merely ejecting Gilon fr. the country we should’ve killed or maimed him as the Israelis did to the U.S. personnel on the Liberty. Is that Dr. Jack’s position?

But really, who the hell cares about this subject??

What was a US spy ship, without any flag, doing next to the Israeli shores during a war???

Why did the US Embassy deny, when asked, that it was one of their ships?

What would have happened if, during WW2, a ship, without any flags, would have been spoted next to the American coastline?

Once you consider the answers, the fate of Liberty was benign.
The US Navy would have sunk the ship and killed all AT ONCE, no question asked!

It is one thing to correctly condemn spies and/or Israel for bad actions but another to concdemn over and over all things that Israel does. There are sufficient anti-Israel and anti-Jewish web sites that do this sort of thing. And they make it clear which side they are on.

I too am angered by the spy incident. But having had a bit of experience in a minor way with military intelligence I dismiss this sort of thing as all in the game, for which, if you would like some good background, get hold of the just published book
reviewed at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18001
My best,
fred L

Yes, I agree. Everybody spies. But if the U.S. spies on Israel (& I concede it probably does or at least tries to) why hasn’t it been caught doing so (as Israel has been several times now in the past 15-20 yrs)? The answer–because the U.S. is probaby much more discrete (& possibly more competent), careful & cautious than the Israelis. The latter go at everything they do–whether its repressing the Palestinians or spying on the U.S. hammer & tongs, devil take the hindmost.

The Liberty was not hit inadvertently, Fred. It was a deliberate attack. Now as to why Israel attacked it with such deadly force, I have no idea. It’s the Israeli government position that it was attacked inadvertently. But we can see in this AIPAC spying case how credible Israeli protestations of innocence are.

I do not condemn “all things that Israel does.” I only condemn those things Israel does wrong. We had a couple of prophets in the Bible you may recall who tried to do the same, so it’s an honored role in Jewish tradition (though some supporters of Israel would claim we are being traitorous to our people & religion–a preposterous attitude).

It’s fine & good to say “it’s all in the game” and “come on now, everybody’s doing it,” but real people & real organizations have been permanently tarnished if not discredited by this. Though I detest what AIPAC does & how it does it–this incident has permanently damaged both the group, its staff & its lobbying efforts here in the U.S. Didn’t Israel think of that potential outcome when it got into this misadventure??

You don’t believe Israel has done USA wrong? Heh heh, sure, but it works here–our media is owned by you, our gvt. is controlled by you, and come next pogram, you will be the poor fuckin’ victims AGAIN unless you drown us in your mud and appocalyps (sp?) first. Yeah, join with the christians, you idiots–it may win you 50 years before the planet explodes from our own american sick fucks and Likudnik neocon christofascists. Good luck.

So sad.

******************************************

[Tikun Olam replies: Don't you just love the smell of anti-Semitism in the morning (to misquote Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now)? And smell surely this comment does. One thing my readers should note is that each of the anti-Semitic comments left here (three others follow this one) was left by the same person using different names & e mail addresses, but the same IP. I've been able to determine using Whois that he lives in Portland, OR and Qwest is his ISP. Now he's banned so hopefully this site will return to some level of normality.

I have different approaches to hate-filled comments like this one. But usually I let all the hatred, bile & filth remain on my site because I want people who might read it to understand how much hate there is in the world; and how dangerous & virulent these haters can be.

This moron for one hasn't even bothered to read my post in which I say that Israel & AIPAC's actions in this matter elicit the comment: "For shame!" Does that sound like I "don't believe Israel has done USA wrong?" Can't you read!?

And again, anti-Semites don't seem to be able to spell (or think or read, but those are topics for another day): it's apocalypse, not "appocalyps (sp?)." At least "Zack" (surely not his real name or e mail address) admits he's spelled it wrong. The first sign of overcoming addiction is admitting you have a problem. Good going, "Zack." Now, maybe you can work on admitting all your other intellectual (such as it is) faults.]

Why do you cater to these guys? You’re not christian… Is it all for MONEY? WOW, man, I’m impressed–

–as, I am sure, are all the US congresscritters that accept AIPAC’s money–yeah, they’ll disagree with me.

SUGESSTION–BUTT THE HELL OUT OF OUR POLITICS, ’cause you know, won’t be long (might already be there) until we are the new Nazis–of course, we must be more brutal than Israelis to achieve that, but still, considering….–could happen………..

**********************************

[Tikun Olam replies: Amazing the ferocity of afearedyank in the midst of the cloak of anonymity that the internet can provide. I bet if you met him on the street he wouldn't appear the "muscle man" he wants us to believe him to be.

Can't figure out where this guy is coming from. First, he wants us to believe he's a Christian anti-Semite. Then he loses that identity to reveal himself to be a neo-Nazi. Zieg Heil, buddy!]

LIBRULS ARE EEEEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Spare me the hypocracy.

**************************************

[Tikun Olam replies: Hard to count the types of hate in this comment. Anti-Semitic? Without doubt. Anti-Chrisitian? Sure. Anti-gay? But of course. Liberals (read Jews)? Yeah, that too.

It must be comforting to have so many different groups on which you can spew bile; and on which you can lay so many of the faults of the world. Without ever of course coming seriously to terms with any of them.]

I guess you’re inured to the idiocy spewed by too many on topics on which they are clearly clueless, and so they toss in a spate of garbage to cover their ignorance. Of course, they’re like children that think because they have their eyes covered, no one can see them. Our pathetic educational system and it’s handmaiden the media have certainly lowered the common denominator.

As for Israeli spying, well this is to be understood in the context of the dependent stepchild who has been set up as a forward base at the doorstep of ALL THAT OIL. It is not a result of the loss of Jewish lives at the hands of the Nazi regime that Israel was formed, but as a result of the mighty lesson learned regarding the cruciality of oil to the projection of power.

I grow very tired of hearing about the “holocaust” as though those Jewish lives were any different that the twenty-five million Soviets who perished. At least they died defending themselves and doing us all a favor by trouncing the Nazis. It is this very conceit — that Jews are somehow more important that anyone else — that has caused members of your faith so much misery through the centuries. The maniacal belief in the chosen-ness of the Jews is the root cause of the misery that has been laid upon them.

And, just as a point of history. Most of today’s Jewery are not related by genes to the original Hebrew tribe. Virtually all of European and Russian Jewery are descended from the Khazars, a Turkish tribe who ruled Ukraine from 600 CE to 850 or so. Their aristocracy adopted Judism by default…they didn’t want to challenge Rome or Constantinople by turning Christian, or Baghdad by going Muslim. As their power waned, they drifted into central Europe and Russia. This was all demonstrated originally by DNA testing.

None of this is to demean anything Jewish, as Christians are lost in the fog of their own specialness, as are members of most belief systems. Religion was invented to control people under the guise of morality. It has proved most flexible in reshaping itself to the changing demands of an evolving world. However, stealing land and murdering children does not speak well for Zion. Our Earth Mother has a long memory, and she particularly despises bullies.

Cheerio,
filboy

********************************

[Tikun Olam replies: I never before have inserted my own comments into the comment of another visitor to this blog. I think reasonable peoples’ comments should stand on their own & not be interfered with or even edited. But all this civility goes out the window when I read the kind of crap spewed in the comment section for this post. That’s why I’ve decided to invade the hater’s comment “space.” I don’t want to take the chance that any of my visitors will not read a separate comment that I might write here rebutting their rants.

Interesting that this person takes on four different personna in writing these four comments all of which are no doubt fraudulent. And within this comment he apologizes for the bile in a separate comment–which he himself wrote! Perhaps we’re seeing the Four Faces of Filboy?!

I originally had a point by point rebuttal of Filboy’s filth here, but I think his words hang him pretty well and people can see pretty clearly that this anti-Semitic emporer has no clothes.