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Sarah Lyall wrote a great piece about an growing problem in English social relations As Privet Rises, Neighbors Take Sides in the New York Times. Apparently, tensions have risen to such a pitch that one disgruntled neighbor actually killed someone who refused to trim his garden hedge.
I feel in the gardening community not enough attention is devoted to gardening etiquette, good manners and good behavior. It’s just assumed that since gardeners are good souls engaging in a spiritually rewarding pastime, that it would go without saying that gardeners would be good, reasonable and caring souls. Well, it ain’t true. Gardeners can be stubborn, willful and downright pigheaded fools (I sometimes count myself among them).
The issue of using hedges as barriers in order to maintain privacy is one that affects me personally. I garden in my home in Madrona (Seattle). The entire southern side of my property is dominated by an English laurel hedge that at its top height reaches between 40-50 feet high. Some books say 30 feet is maximum, but that isn’t the case with this monstrous specimen. The hedge’s length is about 60 feet. The research librarian at the Miller Library at the University of Washington helped me do some botanical research on English laurels and two books in particular (I’ll have to dig up her e mail in which she names the titles & authors) warn against using this plant as a privacy hedge.
In The Complete Shade Gardener (Houghton Mifflin), George Schenk says:
…The planting of an English laurel hedge is an act of aggression against one’s neighbor – and against oneself as well. It is the fightingest of hedges, pushing outward and upward as soon as you turn your back. English laurel is one of the greatest goads to giving up on the yard and moving into an apartment – in a very real sense, this shrub is a real estate agent.
English laurel according to various botanical websites is mildly poisonous (leaves, stem & bark). I have a two year old son and I don’t want him to be endangered by something like this. It can grow up to 5 feet per year. It throws seeds at least 40 feet (well into my yard) forcing me to pick out 50-100 germinated seedlings each year. It sheds leaves profusely and leaves scatter far from their source (forcing me to rake them up on my own property).
Which all leads me to the fact that my neighbor who owns this monstrosity does (in his own defence) trim this hedge once every two years. But in the year when he doesn’t trim I essentially lose about 25% of my yard for gardening purposes since the hedge wipes out that much sunlight. I offered to pay for the trimming in years when he didn’t choose to. He refused. I think he’s being downright selfish, bad mannered and unneighborly.
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Tags: complete-shade-gardener, english-laurel, invasive-plant, privacy-hedge
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Iwould like to know how to transplant a english laurel hedge. I have one hedge now but I don!t know how to get starts off of it.
laurel will grow quickly from seed if you can let a piece of it go for a a bit till it matures to fruit, you can then cut it back harshly (chainsaw ect…) as it will have grown a foot by the next six months. I usualy cut my two fity foot hedgerows back after both fall and spring or I have to bring out the big guns to bust through the woody year branches.
I have a very lagre laurel hedge in the front yard. We trimmed one side but would like to top it off. The laurel was about 12 feet wide and is about 25 feet tall. We trimmed it back to about 5 feet wide and would like to trim it down to about 8 feet tall. Will this kill the laurel as there will be little to no foliage left? And when is the best time of year to do so?
First, Tamara, you didn’t ask for this advice but I’m going to offer it anyway: why don’t you consider getting rid of the English laurel hedge entirely and instead put in a privacy hedge that will not have the tremendous drawbacks of the laurel. You could grow bamboo in big pots (which will grow aggressively but due to the pots will not become invasive like the laurel). I’m no horticulturalist but there are many fine alternatives for hedges.
I think I’ve enumerated the laurel’s drawbacks in my post but just to recap. It grows up to 5 feet per year. So if you want to keep it at a specific height level be prepared for at least yearly pruning (Dan wrote above that he has to trim his twice a year!). Plus, it spews berries at least 50 feet or more from the tree so you’ll be pulling out seedlings for months afterwards if your tree is anywhere near your lawn or garden. If you have kids or pets you should also be aware that almost everything about the laurel is poisonous. They’re just plain invasive.
All that being said, is there anything positive to say about the laurel? Yes. If you let it grow as a tree it looks quite nice. But using the laurel as a privacy hedge is a different story.
To answer your questions, there’s nothing you can do to harm a laurel tree short of poisoning it. Maybe I’m exagerrating a bit. And I don’t think it matters much when you trim it. If you’re concerned about the tree’s welfare you should probably trim it in the fall or early spring before new growth starts.
Dan: I meant to congratulate you on being so conscientious about maintaining your English laurel. My neigbor maintains his 50 foot hedge with trimming every two years which just about destroys my chance for a summer garden in my back & side yards. If you have neighbors, they must be grateful to you for being so thoughtful.
And btw, should you ever wish to move to Seattle I’ll put you in touch with my neighbors who own a lovely home. I’d even chip in to help you buy it (just kidding!).
So how do you poison one of these hedges ive had enough of next doors hedge but cant seem to find any weed killer that will do it in?
any suggestions welcome
Man, what do you take me for? Someone who encourages neighborhood violence & garden vandalism? Have you tried negotiating w. yr neighbor? Ask him if you can pay to remove the hedge & replace it w. something that will satisfy him & you both.
I don’t know what URI means
However be a devil and tell us how to poison a laurel hedge some neighbours are totally selfish and just enough to slow growth would be good
We live in Selah (near Yakima) Washington and have five acres. Our neighbor to the east has added to his collection of junk autos a derelict motorhome and another old pickup that has been dragged out to have the wheels and other parts removed. Last year they brought home two hounds to add to their dog collection. The dogs before this addition were not too bothersome but now with the two hounds I can’t go out to change the sprinkler location without the dogs charging the fence barking and baying. That’s five aggressive dogs. That’s not counting the two dogs that belong to their friends that live in the later-model moterhome that bark non-stop while I am out weeding my watermelon and cantalope. Of course those two are tied up to the big moterhome.
My mother in Port Angeles has a nice big laurel hedge to block the defunct carwash business next door. Of course that disables the nice view of the Port Angeles harbor and the Dungeness spit with the San Juan Islands in the distance. But the hedge is nice and big and bushy. I realise the hedge wouldn’t stop the barking and that horrible baying but may help stop them from seeing us out in the yard and would block the view of the house and yard and would eventually leave us with just the view of the Yakima Training Center and the surroundings. I know this idea is unneighborly but I am almost desperate. I’ve heard that laurel takes to cutting starts easily. I just hope a 12-15 foot setback from the fence is enough although I have about forty feet to my watermelon patch. Ken O (9-17-07)
Ken: My sympathies on a very bad situation w yr neighbors.
I’ve already written this here so hopefully you’ve read all the drawbacks. I’d urge you to consider a diff. type of privacy hedge. First, you’re looking at 30-50 ft. hedges at max. height. Second, think of the shade generated by this hedge on yr own garden. Third, think of the all the seedlings you’ll have to pick out of yr own garden which are thrown far clear of the hedge itself.
Go to a nursery & get other options before you try this. My suggestion anyway.
Thanks Richard for the tips. I am a bit late in replying this being Oct 21. I won’t give up on a different type of hedge but I get sticker shock at the local nursery for just about anything they sell. There is always online sales and of course the local county extension office may have leads. But still a hedge about 10 to 12 feet high would be great and the neighbors have brought in two more junk cars. If nothing else I’ve got to try growing an English laurel as atree or two. My property borders 660 feet of mobile home park to the north and a couple of big laurels would be interesting. I have been collecting tree seeds and nuts from the local parks. Sycamores are all over the place here. I have seven maples started in pots. If they turn out to be silver maples I may not want to plant them because that type is brittle and the branches tend to break in the wind. So I keep on learning. I have about two acres to plant trees. I have most of my fruit trees closer to the house. A 50 foot laurel; now that is interesting. Thanks again, Ken O in Selah
Ken: As long as you realize that you can’t just plant “an English laurel or two.” If you plant one you’ll constantly be plucking out scores of seedlings ea. yr. unless you want them to grow into trees as well. They’re prolific. Though I recognize they ARE easy to grow & cheap.
Sycamores are wonderful & I love that option if you’re near water (which they love). Maples can be a problem if your land gets really soaked through as they tend to topple in big winds or heavy rains. That’s why the natives are so good because they’ve adapted to these conditions.
I’ve just started a Korean Hornbeam which I picked up at a horticulture garden sale. It will grow between 15-20 feet. So far it looks lovely but it doesn’t seem to grow very fast which may not be what you’re looking for.
wow-im surprised to hear the negatives on this plant.Its seen in my area-it has givin us privacy(im so glad the neighbore planted it-!)7 yrs later its not invasive and i wouldnt mind and wish i could get seedlings.the poisonous part is good to know-the deer did eat the ones i planted to block out my other neighbors tho.we have heavy clay soil here so it may make a difference in the invasiveness.ask a nursery for any suggestions on the invasive problem.total veg. killer should work-but kills everything around it too.round up should help.maybe there s something else to put on the soil thats not toxic
It most assuredly IS invasive. THe only reason you might not find it so is if your laurels cause so much shade that the seedlings can’t germinate. Maybe yr soil contributes to them not germinating I don’t know. But I assure you if you plant a laurel in anything like open terrain or near open terrain you’ll have scores, if not hundreds of volunteers a few weeks after it drops its berries. And it will do this every yr.
what state do you live in -im in calif -just under 3000 ft–everyone i know that has it doesnt have an invasive problem–im going to ask a nursery and see what they say about this -they are in the sun-and some of them are only 4′ after 7yrs-but most are getting to be 15′ or more–it has to be the soil.what we have coming up like weeds are ponderosa pines-they seems to like the clay–does anybody know any quick growing tall screens you can use over a septic system?ive planted boxwood and rosemary
I live in WA. near the Puget Sound. English laurel is everywhere here. It must like a wet climate (though we get significant heat & dryness in summer). I wonder whether yr elevation & cold (I’m assuming) winter climate might tone down the laurel’s growing habits somewhat.
If you want advice about screens you might try Gardenweb. Do you know that site? People there tend to give good advice. Let me know if you need a URL for it.
I love the colour/color of my English laurel! But…
I think English laurel is a hopeless choice as a hedge for especially smaller town garden in areas with a milder climate and higher rainfall – Just as bad as the local (Vancouver Island) cedars and all but upright conifers, in my humble opinion. It was almost amusing to read about other people and their English laurel hedges! Almost, because I have 60 feet of hedge on the eastern side and 75 feet on the western side of my small property (7000 sq feet) to “maintain”.
I also have a small landscaping firm and love English laurels because… they give me income!
Two years ago I asked my neighbour on the eastern side permission to prune the hedge on his side and made it four feet lower as well. He looked extremely relieved and very gladly said “certainly, no objection!” I then realized that for the sake of good neighbourlyness I will have to prune the hedge at least twice a year in future, resrtricting the height to eight feet and the width to two feet. Now my neighbour loves me, greets me and brings me blue berries every year.
The longer hedge screens out a busy street, little birds like the shelter it provides and a pair of robins loves to nest in it – that is the good part… It was 10 feet wide and 12 feet tall a year ago. One could actually see it on Google Earth! I could not even reach the middle to prune it. I had to take action. I went to the local rental store and got a chainsaw for four hours. Then I cut a stick down to four feet as a gadge and “simply” chainsawed my hedge to four feet width. My significant others thought I lost my mind, but now will have to admit that the English laurel really recovers very well after butchering. It even grows in winter!
Happy gardening!
I have an old tree (about 40 feet high and wide) at the corner of my driveway and the street sidewalk in front of my house in California. It usually provided a good view and nice shadow to my car especially in sunny summer. However, it is dead. I have to plant another tree, tall, wide, and fast growing, to replace the dead old tree. In this case, do you think English Laurel will be an acceptable plant? Thanks.
Richard, thank you very much for your quick reply and comments about the laurel. I just got home from the weekend vocation.
I saw two English laurels standing in the city park. They are large and beautiful, with big shade. Because the old large tree, which usually provided a big shade for my driveway, is dead, I just need to grow another big tree to replace the dead one. I don¡¦t mind how tall it grows, but the taller the better, and I don¡¦t care how wide it expends, but the wider the better, because I need its big shade and also its fast growing speed. I do not plant a hedge, but a shade. For this reason, English laurel sounds one for me. For this reason, if I plant an English laurel, I will not trim it except its lower part over the driveway. I will trim it like a doorway. However, the testimonies on the website and the warning from you make me worry about its¡¦ uncontrollable expending. It should be plant by the street. Most lawns on both side of the street are not larger than 800 sqft. If not all but most landlords have their lawns maintained monthly. Will it help to stop the English laurel from expending its territory?
Which else tree can grow fast and tall with large crown? I live in the Silicon Valley south to San Francisco .
Thank you again for your kind help.
i live in new jersey. i have had laurels for three years and they grow only a foot or two a year. i know they must be very annoying to you, but here they are not a problem at all. today i was looking at 1 gallon containers and they were $50.00. start selling them online :), maybe that will make you will love them.
bexsoda: It sounds like your laurels may be growing in shade. Or perhaps your colder winters diminish growth. Here in Seattle they can grow pretty much yr round since we only get brief freezes. And the growth is much more in the 3-5 feet a yr range.
I don’t have a problem w. them as long as they are grown in the right place & for the right reason & by an owner who respects the needs of their neighbors.
I have the laurel hedge from hell. I had it trimmed to 5 feet about 10 years ago. Since it was a rental property and I was absent the thing is now 30′ feet tall and the laterals are huge. I need to whack it. If I want to keep it for privacy can I cut it down to about 3′ x 3′ and leave the laterals that run towards the next trunk so it will close the gaps? Or, if I choose to dig it out how deep do the roots need to be dug in order to make it go away forever. It is a monster! The things has become a huge trellis for blackberries which make trimming a nightmare.
@Brian McNamara: If you trim it back with its vigorous growth I’m guessing it will close the gap. If you cut it down to the ground and cover the stump tightly with thick black plastic bag for several months or a year I believe that should kill it. That’s what I’ve seen folks do in the city park near our home, which is infested w. it. I’ve never dealt w. the roots so I can’t say how deep they go. Given how hardy this thing is I’m guessing taking it out by the roots wouldn’t be easy.
Laurel Hedges:
We are doubly “blessed”. I have lived in this house for over 30 years and houses on both sides have sold several times. The neighbor to our right have allowed the laurel hedge (planted right on the property line) to grow to over 20′. They refuse to trim so we are stuck with an out of control laurel with trunks 6″ in diameter. It is gangly and sparse on the low end and we are overpowered trying to manage our side of the darn thing.
On the other side is another laurel planted right on the property line and it has been allowed to grow so high and wide that we can’t see out of our living room window. To make matters worse, there is also a huge laurel hedge facing the street and it is so high and wide that we are unable to see the street, houses across the street from some of our windows. In both cases the owners want their privacy and do not plan on manaaging the hedge at all. Neither are gardners, yard people etc. It is really unfair to allow these hedges to encroach on our property, block our view and greatly impact the growing area in our own yard.
Not only have these hedges been a huge burden but our relationship with either neighbor is not good because they just don’t care.
In my area one can trim trees or hedges that are on their property. Our neighbors have a gigantic laurel hedge that is a nightmare and we cut our side every year. The think is easily 12-15 feet wide and the suckers come up everywhere. It is a constant battle. They don’t cut their side and it is taller than their house. If a tree is on my property and taking over many feet of it I’m going to trim it!
We have a friend that got sued because a woman had a fit that he cut the branches off her tree (that were over his driveway). He cut the branches off to tree instead of leaving a stub. In doing so went over her property line a couple feet. He would have been fine if he had only cut the branch back to his property line.
We planted a dwarf laurel hedge in another area and like it very much. We keep it confined and doing so it doesn’t get out of hand.
We also live in the Pacific NW
Some great info hear and English Laurels are definitely for me. They will do exactly as I want in blocking out annoying neighbors. If they spread, even better because this means I have to buy less of them.
Richard, we were considering planting some English Laurel along 150 feet of our property between us and the future fire station. We have about 40 feet between our yard and their property. We’re not looking for a trimmed hedge neccessarily but a privacy, noise, pollution screen as they will look down into our pool, yard and daughters bedrooms. The key is that this area is filled with our Oak trees and dips down to a creek. (Which is why our yard is fenced off from that part of our property.) So whatever is planted there needs to able to grow under the canopy of these old Oak Trees and be a fast grower and visually shield our home and yard from the station which will be built on a building pad that sits 10 feet higher than our yard elevation. We’re ideally looking for something that will start shielding at 5 ft and as high as 30 feet. This is at the south of our property. Could you provide a suggestion that might be better for this? I would appreciate any help as we are not thrilled to have the Fire Dept. buy our neighbors home to tear it down to build their dream facility. We live in California in the Bay Area.
Thanks much.
Actually, I would go to the fire dept. & responsible local agencies & ask them to build a privacy hedge for you on their own adjacent property or else to pay for one you plant on yr property. Let them have the headache & take care of it for you since they’re presumably going to invade yr privacy & also impact the value of yr property.
This was our initial idea too. We tried to do this and they told us they were unwilling to do anything but put up a couple screens (7 ft tall by 4 ft) in a couple stragic places on their side blocking the view into their bedrooms but unfortunately does nothing to protect the our privacy or public access to our property. They put a nice walking path on the plans for the public bordering our property so that they could enjoy the creek and oak canopy. They won’t even put a standard 6 ft fence up on their property line. They are tearing down the one that is existing. Hence our fusteration! We tried to talk to the county agencies who will not force them to address the privacy or depreciation of property value. So we are in search of an economical way to protect our privacy from this fire station of 18 firefighters rotating through 3 shifts and public access. But they said they will be “good neighbors”.
I wouldn’t trust a promise of being a good neighbor as far as I could throw it. You get 18 guys living in a space next door to you full time & who knows how they will behave. Maybe they’ll be decent, maybe they won’t.
Get yrself a good land use attorney. Then tell the fire department that your lawyer is empowered to negotiate a satisfactory resolution of the dispute for you, and that you’re prepared to go to the local TV station to make your grievance known. Personally, I think you’d have a good case in the court of public opinion. And I doubt they’ll want something like this to go all the way to court. In addition, I’d try to get yr attorney to negotiate conditions for use of the fire station so that it will negatively impact you as little as possible.
My wife knows the San Francisco city attorney and might be able to help if you need a referral to a good local attorney wherever you live.
We would appreciate a refferal, we would be fishing in a haystack. Thanks Richard.
are you talking about Privet (Ligustrum) or English Laurel (Prunus laurocerasus)? Privet is a nightmare for sure but true English Laurel is not.
English laurel. It may not be a nightmare in yr climate, but it is in ours.