25 thoughts on “AIPAC’s Pact With the Christian Zionist Devil – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I think they are aware of their views. Their are many secular conservatives that also support a first strike nuclear attack against Iran. Cheney, Rumsfield and Perle come to mind.

  2. I guess the fifty million supporters haggee claims could provide some political support for the agenda of aipac/israel. The far right fringes of both of these groups have come together as a fascist monolith which could be a force to be feared. Given the right patriotic circumstances other voices could be silenced very effectively by this majority.

  3. you have got it i million per cent wrong,the biggest threat to israel and the jewish people is none other,then our own so called government in israel,led by the criminally insane traitorous,feckless,disaster named olmert,

  4. Chaim: Olmert may be a disaster but it’s outrageous to call him a traitor–unless of course you’re a Kahanist. I wonder how you can claim that a Christian demagogue who loves Jews only because they’re going to bring the Second Coming (& get killed in the process) is NOT a threat to Jews?

  5. Haggee’s claims of 50 million is way overblown. I have some insight on the Christians right – as my father-in-law is a very religious Christian. It’s hard to draw too many conclusions from what is essentially an “anecdote” – but I do believe there are a sizable number of people who think like he does….

    While he natrually holds anti-gay and anti-abortion beliefs, he really bought into the right-wing political agenda over their propaganda and his disgust over Clinton’s behavior in the Lewinski scandal. He was solidly pro-Bush in the first election. He has solid beliefs about the environment (Christians are the stewards of the world) and very strong beliefs about the poor – and bought into the “Compassionate Conservatism credo)

    Over time he has become more and more disillusioned with the Bush camp. He reluctantly supported Bush in 2004 – and as the war took a turn for the worse he has become solidly anti-war. He has subsequently changed churchs (over many issues not just politics – but all related to a clear hypocracy by the leadership of the church) and found one that is patently un-political and feels that politics and religion have no place mixing.

    When you hear the numbers claimed by political support by the leadership of the Chrisitian right – I think you must take them with a grain of salt. They may have many people who accept their theological beliefs – but I don’t think that will continue be able to count on them on supporting their political agenda.

  6. while you do make very good and valid points, i would like to bring forward what i believe is also a very important issue to the christians, mainly israel. If the argument is framed properly by the war party/fascist, and it is made to revolve around ahmadinejads hitlerlike attitude and the destruction of israel, the christians will follow like the proverbial lemmings off a cliff. Nevermind that the cia especulates that they will not be able to have nuclear weapons until sometime mid next decade, where israel is concerned, christians-ziionists believe that we should support that state irrespective of what it does. I would also like to say that christians only know about the mythical israel and have no idea about it’s present religious beliefs or its political reality. The middle east truly needs peace above anything, this area of the world, because of oil, represents a clear and present danger to the world if the parties involved cannot move beyond the greed and racism that drives them.

    i wish i were wrong, but the crusaders are riding again in the middle east.

  7. Thanks for taking the millenialists seriously. Most political commentators pretend they don’t exist.

  8. Most political commentators pretend they don’t exist.

    I’ve never felt that way. But I sometimes don’t know how much of a threat they pose. And their views are SO alien to the views of the vast majority of the rest of the country and world. One doesn’t know quite what to make of it sometimes. But putting him in front of 4,000 AIPAC leaders was such an outrage, I couldn’t ignore it.

  9. Responding to something Dan Sniderman said, about Hagee’s environmental position :

    John Hagee has signed on with a bloc of evangelical leaders trying to force NAE Vice President Richard Cizic to step down because of Cizic’s efforts to get the NAE to take a stand and advocate for action to address Global Warming. A strong majority of NAE members believe, according to a recent poll, that Global Warming is a threat.

    John Hagee’s concept of “stewardship” is not what many would consider “pro environment”.

    To begin with,. nuclear war – which Hagee advocates – would be a human and environmental disaster. And, the WW3 he both warns of and clamors or would hinder or prevent meaningful global cooperation to address Global Warming and other pressing planetary environmental problems.

  10. Richard you have nothing to apologize for as far as i can see, john haggee is stepping way far out of his christian position by agitating for a war on muslims where real life men and women will lose their lives in the name of the galilean who laid down his life for john haggee and the rest of the world according to the bible new testament. I am hoping to attend the first john haggee service near me, i intend on standing up in the middle of his service and ask him how he can advocate for a crusade to kill muslims in the name of jesus christ. i will ask john if jesus would have ever advocated for the death of roman soldiers in his day. The christian lobby represent a huge voting block that if harnessed like in the past can help to elect the right man for the wrong job, george bush received the christian lobby vote in his last election mainly because of his born again status and his strong stand against the muslim extremist. i am repulsed by his stance as a crusader in the name of christians in america. i would love to see jewish americans take him on and call him out on the hateful things he has said.

  11. For what it’s worth, there’s a historical item I discovered on the Google engine that can probably redden some faces. It is titled Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism. Check it out. Irv

  12. This demystifies : The Doomsday Code 1hr 41 min – presented by Tony Robinson

    Tony Robinson travels to America, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and Africa to gather evidence that might uncover the realities behind the prophecies contained within the Book of Revelation. He interviews people who believe millions will be spirited up to Heaven, Israel will fight a nuclear war, that the Secretary General of the UN will be unmasked as the Anti-Christ and the world will end after the Battle of Armageddon

    I watched it and it helped me to understand the Christian Eschatologist view of our world.

  13. I am deeply disturbed by Hagee’s writings on Fishermen and Hunters here. It is time to look more closely at the links between American Fascists and the Evangelical Right (beginning with Billy Graham in the 50s) the oilmen/arms manufacturers (e.g.Russell Maguire), post 1950s antisemitism in the form of anticommunist/trades unionist/assimilationist govt. policies, as well as the financial support for Hitler’s regime via Wall Street, incl. that of Bush’s own grandfather, the work of Gershom Gorenberg and Chris Hedges.

    A war on two fronts – they play off Jews off against Muslims to weaken both, not caring if we are all destroyed in the process.
    They don’t care for any of the real flesh and blood humans who live in the Middle East, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian, Zorastrian, Ba’hai, etc.

  14. Actually, there won’t be a “rapture” (John 17:15 and 20). Actually, no Muslim, no nobody, is going to “hell for eternity” (1Timothy 2:3-4). Actually, it is clearly obvious that by wishing nuclear war on anyone for the sake of a “rapture of the Church” and the destruction of 2/3 of Jews…well doesn’t that make Hagee worse than Hitler? And yes I heard him last night on TBN (?) telling his “flock” that Iran had nukes…amazing! Even Bush…even Cheney!…even Olmert!…has never made that claim! Far from being a man of Christ, he is clearly anti-Christ (and I don’t mean the so-called “AntiChrist” of Revelation either, a doctrine that is also false.)

  15. I heard John Hagee, and he was wonderful. Furthermore, At the AIPAC conferences in 2006 and 2007, I met many Christian supporters of Israel (many of whom were college students). Those of you doubting the motives of Hagee and other Evangelical Christians should come to an AIPAC conference for yourselves and discover how wrong you are. Short of that, please read “Standing With Israel: Why Chrisitans Support the Jewish State” by David Brog. Brog was Chief of Staff to Sen Arlen Spector. If you ever wondered abou the roots of Christian anti-Semitism (I know that I did), then Brog’s book is a must read. If, more importantly, you want to read about why so many American Christians support Israel and reject anti-Semitism, then you also owe it to yourself to read this incredibly well-written book. Brog participated in a forum at the 2006 AIPAC conference on Christian support for Israel. The panel also included two Christian pastors, both passionate supporters of Israel. By the end of the forum, everyone in the room was practically in tears and hugging everyone else in the room. It was one of the most moving experiences of my life. In his book, Brog describes how Hagee has donated millions of dollars to “. . . Jewish organizations that fund the imigration of Jews to Israel and one that supports Israeli orphans.” We need to know who are friends are, and certainly John Hagee is a great friend to the Jewish People and to Israel.

  16. By the end of the forum, everyone in the room was practically in tears and hugging everyone else in the room. It was one of the most moving experiences of my life.

    Why I’m-sniffle, sniffle–crying myself it’s all so goddamn moving. Why didn’t I ever see the error of my ways & embrace Pastor John & true Christian love for Zion?? But Howard, you’ve shown me the light. I’m signing up for next year’s AIPAC conference right after I publish this comment.

    I salute you Howard, showing us leftists that we’ve been on the wrong path for lo these many years. Keep up the good work for the Lord and Israel!

  17. Well, it does not bother me to be mocked. The top of this page says something about Tikkun Olam, making the world a better place. If what it takes to make the world a better place is to open your eyes and your mind and to consider new information, then you would be wise to do so. I met people at the AIPAC conference who were from left and right of the political spectrum. Certainly Nancy Pelosi is no right-winger, and she probably received the warmest welcome, both before and after her talk, of any person who addressed the conference.

  18. If what it takes to make the world a better place is to open your eyes and your mind and to consider new information, then you would be wise to do so.

    “New information?” What “new information?” You think a single word of what you’re peddling is “new information?” PUH-LEEZE! What you’re peddling is same-old, same-old my friend. Not a single new or interesting idea has crossed your mind in ages as far as the I-P conflict goes.

    I met people at the AIPAC conference who were from left and right of the political spectrum.

    Indeed you did. You actually met a few people who support KADIMA! Wow. That’s pretty far out there on the left end of the spectrum for folks like you, isn’t it??

    Nancy Pelosi is no right-winger, and she probably received the warmest welcome, both before and after her talk

    I thought you said you actually attended the conference. You mean you didn’t hear the boos that attended her critical references to U.S. Iraq policy? Please don’t come here to peddle bulls(&t. Hagee received an uproarious response fr. the crowd. Everyone who was there & wrote about it says so. Many other journalists who attended say Pelosi’s reception was polite, but hardly “the warmest.”

    Dems are on the outside looking in as far as AIPAC is concerned. The group is practically an extension of the Republican, neocon universe. Which is why Hagee is so adored & why you feel right at home.

  19. New information?” What “new information?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If you have not read David Brog’s book, then you are ignoring an opportunity for lot’s of new information. The book is incredibly well-written and informative.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I thought you said you actually attended the conference. You mean you didn’t hear the boos that attended her critical references to U.S. Iraq policy? Please don’t come here to peddle bulls(&t. Hagee received an uproarious response fr. the crowd. Everyone who was there & wrote about it says so. Many other journalists who attended say Pelosi’s reception was polite, but hardly “the warmest.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I heard the boos, which is why I specifically said that she was warmly received both before and after her talk. Some rude fools booed during her talk, but the reception was warm before and after. No one booed Cheney, but he did not receive a warm response at the end of his talk. I could have booed him, and so could many others, but we had more class than those who booed Pelosi.

    I am a registered Democrat. As a result of the Kerry bashing at the end of the 2006 Congressional campaign, I voted for only Dems in the last election. Being an open-minded person, I often vote for some Republicans, but not this last time. The majority of people in the conference were probably registered Democrats, although the group was probably more Republican than a random selection of Jews. And, as I pointed out, there were many non-Jews in attendance.

  20. Some rude fools booed during her talk

    Those “rude fools” were probably the national leadership of the organization. AIPAC has bipartisan support I grant you. But Dems are fools for being led by the nose by an organization, the majority of whose leaders hate everything Dems stand for.

    The majority of people in the conference were probably registered Democrats

    I am certain that this is not true. Besides, how do you know this to be true? Or are you merely conjecturing (not worth much I’m afraid)?

    the group was probably more Republican than a random selection of Jews.

    Gee, dya think? 77% of Jews are against the Iraq war. Do you think 77% of those attending the conference were opposed? Ehud Olmert isn’t opposed & told the conference goers so. John Hagee wasn’t opposed. The majority of Jews are opposed to an attack on Iran. Were the majority of conference goers opposed to such an attack? Of course not. You’re fooling yourself if you only believe AIPAC is slightly out of touch w. majority Jewish opinion.

    I am a registered Democrat.

    Many American Jews pride themselves on their liberalism or support of Dems. But when it comes to Israel they might as well be neocon/Likud supporters. Liberalism goes out the window. But of course they believe they’re liberals when it comes to Israel though nothing could be further fr. the truth.

  21. If the leadership of AIPAC did not want Pelosi to speak, then she would not have been there. She is very pro-Israel, confiding that she keeps copies of the dogtags of the three kidnapped Israeli soldiers hanging in her office to remind her of their continuing captivity every day. I met and talked to many people at the conference, often discussing political affiliation. I thank heaven for the Republican Jews who give credibility to the Jewish vote. The ethnic groups who support a single party are easily written off by politicians of both parties. I have attended meetings at AIPAC with both of my senators, Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer. I have also met with my congresswoman, Anna Eshoo, who is a close confidant of Nancy Pelosi. In any case, this thread started off about Christian supporters of Israel, John Hagee, in particular. I will take a John Hagee over anti-Israel extreme leftists like Noam Chomsky and Joel Beinen on most issues. But the great thing about Hagee is that his support is not conditional. It is not about politics for Hagee, but about belief and love.

    It is interesting that you could be “certain” about the political affiliation of AIPAC when you were not even there.

    By the way, I pride myself on using listening to people on both sides of an issue and using my brain. I really do not like either party that much. And I am increasingly connected to AIPAC, so I am not fooling myself about any aspect of that outstanding organization.

  22. The leadership of AIPAC could care 2 s(&%s about Nancy Pelosi. She’s the leading elected Dem in the country & they need a veneer of bipartisanship so they invite her & then let their leaders boo her.

    She is very pro-Israel, confiding that she keeps copies of the dogtags of the three kidnapped Israeli soldiers hanging in her office to remind her of their continuing captivity every day

    I’m touched. That and 6 bits will buy her a cup of coffee. Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have anything to do w. getting the IDF soldiers freed. That address is Hassan Nasrallah. As far as I’m concerned the dogtags are a bit of political theater.

    I thank heaven for the Republican Jews who give credibility to the Jewish vote.

    I wouldn’t attribute anything connected to politics to heaven. As for credibility, Jews who vote Republican have no credibility. They’re either rich fatcats or have the wool pulled over their eyes or both.

    I will take a John Hagee over anti-Israel extreme leftists like Noam Chomsky and Joel Beinen

    You poor sap. If it wouldn’t mean my own demise I’d say good riddance to both you & Hagee in his apocalyptic war in which 2/3 of yr kind are going to be incinerated in the coming Holocaust. You like Hagee’s support but swallow this theological swill he’s selling by saying it means nothing. Only the most base opportunist would do what you are doing by chumming around w. John Hagee.

    It is not about politics for Hagee, but about belief and love.

    Wise up buddy. Hagee doesn’t “love” you. You’re a mere tool for him, a foil to bring on the Rapture. He’d just as soon see you fry in the next Holocaust as he would look at you. You’re merely a means to an end.

    I pride myself on using listening to people on both sides of an issue

    You’re not here to “listen” to me & you know it. You’re here to project AIPAC’s pt. of view. You’re slumming among the lefties (in yr. view, that is).

    I am not fooling myself about any aspect of that outstanding organization.

    The mere fact that you call it “outstanding” means you’ve drunk the KoolAid w. all the rest of ’em. Maybe you can volunteer for the IAF or USAF and drop the big one on those Iranian mullah bastards. Do a great deed for yr people & help get Hagee that much closer to the End Times.

  23. Dear Neighbors:
    This is a fascinating website! Believe it or not, I am a believer in the claims of the Apostles of Jesus Christ, with committment to historic confessional evangelical Christianity, who found myself ostracized by fellow evangelicals over the years because I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH CHRISTIAN ZIONISM!
    The reasons for the United States of America to regard the modern State of Israel as a special friend make sense to me, without any need to take painful apocalyptic judgments upon nations from ancient history to the fall of the temple in First Century Jerusalem, and make them into a modern “Late Great Planet Earth”, or Hagee’s zionism, or any sin against the claims of the Apostles that true faith in Jesus Christ produces genuine brotherhood, and breaks down the wall of separation, based upon genetic ethnicity.
    Anyway, here’s someone who agrees with Evangelicals about the saving grace of God revealed in Jesus Christ, but who despises perversions of the Gospel that the NeoCon version of foreign policy has exploited to the hurt of the Christian goal of respect among all people everywhere.

    Paul Richard Strange Sr
    Waxhachie Texas

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